DUNE 3 is now available!!

[pdxindy]

I partially agree with BONES, programing in Dune 3 is not bad until you need use Mod Matrix.

Half the power of Dune is in the Mod Matrix

I also agree with BONES... although I think he exaggerates it some... but Dune is not very user friendly, and not just because it is a complex synth. Various functionality that might have a dedicated control in a different synth depends on the Mod Matrix in Dune. So the Mod Matrix being clunky and not fluid to use makes a proportionally bigger difference in Dune.

Also, because much sound design happens in the Mod Matrix, I find the synth somewhat opaque in terms of understanding what is going on in a sound.

I quite like the sound and capability of Dune so was looking forward to Dune 3 assuming the workflow would be improved. I didn't buy Dune 2 because of the workflow and so there is no reason to buy Dune 3 either. Maybe Dune 4

[Elektronisch]

Dune 3 resambles alot to a modern hardware synth with LCD. Take Virus Ti as example, or Novation Peak...

[wagtunes]

The problem with Dune 2, Dune 3, whatever, is that it's a science professor's synth. It's not an artist's synth. At least not in regard to programming it. If you have the kind of analytical mind that can do formulas and equations and program computers, Dune is a cakewalk to program if not a bit boring. But if you're an artist who is used to turning knobs and adjusting sliders, Dune is like trying to master calculus 3.

My main job before retiring was programming computers, so Dune is easy for me. But I can see why people hate the interface, especially the mod matrix.

Ironically, I have an easier time getting a variety of sounds out of Dune than I do out of The Legend because comparatively speaking, The Legend is limited. I mean nobody can say, with a straight face, that The Legend is as powerful in the programming area as Dune. If you're claiming that then you're just doing it to be argumentative.

I find The Legend boring as hell to program. I did that shit 40 years ago and I've had enough of it. It gets old real fast. In fact, VA synthesis is so boring for me that I will absolutely never buy another "pure" VA synth ever again. I mean, what's the point?

Point is, please don't be surprised by people not liking Dune 2 and 3.

I'm more surprised at the number of people who aren't tired of the Minimoog yet.

[Teksonik]

Half the power of Dune is in the Mod Matrix

Not half but some.

Various functionality that might have a dedicated control in a different synth depends on the Mod Matrix in Dune.

And where would that "dedicated control" reside ? That's right on the GUI therefore making it larger or more crowded. Then people would complain it's too big or too crowded.

So the Mod Matrix being clunky and not fluid to use makes a proportionally bigger difference in Dune.

Not the least bit clunky and perfectly fluid to use here. Would drag and drop be nice ? Yes but not necessary.

Also, because much sound design happens in the Mod Matrix I find the synth somewhat opaque in terms of understanding what is going on in a sound.

What is opaque about a 32 Slot Mod Matrix on a single Tab, 7 of which can be seen at one time, the rest accessed by a simple scroll ? Everything is laid out right in front of you. No different in time required than Hive's 2 Tab MM system for example.

I quite like the sound and capability of Dune so was looking forward to Dune 3 assuming the workflow would be improved. I didn't buy Dune 2 because of the workflow and so there is no reason to buy Dune 3 either. Maybe Dune 4

My point is we don't know if there will be a Dune 4. Synapse may start work on a new project or they may keep developing Dune. I haven't seen a definitive answer to that yet. I'd love to see either one. But if development of Dune continues I'd rather see valuable time be spent on the sound rather than features of comfort.

So if you really like Dune's sound now then you'll just have to learn how to use it. No synth will program itself unless it has a randomize function.

Some people complain about what a synth doesn't have. Other people have learned to enjoy what it does have. We have seen several patch banks released for D2 and now D3 with more on the way so obviously not everyone has a problem programming it.......

[pdxindy]

So if you really like Dune's sound now then you'll just have to learn how to use it.

No I wont... I'll just continue to use the other synths I have that I also like the sound of.

With so much great software and hardware available today, I can afford to be picky. It's never been a better time to be a synthesist!

[Teksonik]

The problem with Dune 2, Dune 3, whatever, is that it's a science professor's synth. It's not an artist's synth. At least not in regard to programming it. If you have the kind of analytical mind that can do formulas and equations and program computers, Dune is a cakewalk to program if not a bit boring. But if you're an artist who is used to turning knobs and adjusting sliders, Dune is like trying to master calculus 3.

Absolute and utter nonsense. Are you saying I'm not an "artist" just because I've learned how to program Dune 3 ? I've spent a lot of time "turning knobs and adjusting sliders" in D3 and the results are quite enjoyable at least to me.

D3 is one of the easiest synths I've ever programmed and that counts a lot of synths. Yes if you want to get into Formulas then it can get complex but it's possible to program a lot of really great sounding patches without ever getting near a formula. If you're willing to put in the time.

I don't care one bit if people like Dune 3 but not liking it because it's "too hard" to program is just silly. I could see if the complaints were coming from millennials who are still at their mother's teat at age 25 and expect everything to be given to them with no effort but you guys are grown men.

Ok whatever. Don't use D3 because it's over your head. You're simply missing out on a great sounding synth. Your loss.

Anyway it's that time to go into the studio and today I'll spend time joyously creating patches for Dune 3 because it really is that easy......

[AnX]

i got what wags was saying, but dont totally agree.
the gui is covered in knobs and sliders, so lots to mess with there, before you dive into the mod matrix (which is very simple anyway, no need be a genius to work it out)

i dont really see it as a complicated synth, if follows pretty much all the standard workflows. It can be complex, if you want, but its not difficult to get to grips with.

[wagtunes]

i got what wags was saying, but dont totally agree.
the gui is covered in knobs and sliders, so lots to mess with there, before you dive into the mod matrix (which is very simple anyway, no need be a genius to work it out)

i dont really see it as a complicated synth, if follows pretty much all the standard workflows. It can be complex, if you want, but its not difficult to get to grips with.

Okay, you don't totally agree which means you partially agree. I mean you CAN see where people MIGHT have problems when trying to create complex patches.

More specifically, please tell me that Dune 3 is as simple to program as a MInimoog utilizing all the features of both. I don't see how anybody, unless they're just purposely being argumentative, can say that with a straight face. No more than saying Falcon is as easy to program as a Minimoog. It's absurd.

Yes, for some people, Falcon, Dune, hell, the most complex modular synths in the world, are a cakewalk to program. Congrats. But they are not the norm. And what burns my cookies is when one of these "I can do anything in the world" types argue that something is EASY just because it's easy for THEM.

Go and take a poll of how many people think Dune 3 is easy to program. If the yes answers outnumbered the no answers I'd be stunned.

It's as absurd as me trying to sit here and say "I don't understand why people have problems programming Softube Modular. It's a piece of cake." It just makes me look arrogant.

How about we concede that NOT everybody is a rocket scientist?

[AnX]

i think anyone with a basic understanding of synthesis can get to grips with D3 as easily as a minimoog.

if you want to go deeper you have to put the effort in, same with any synth. I wouldnt expect a complete noob to figure out how Synth1 worked, let alone D3. I also dont think its a hard synth to learn as it follows all the basic paradigms.

The majority of softsynth users are preset whores/tweakers, so i imagine the poll would say its "hard to program" as they actually have no idea how to. (which is totally fine, some ppl just like to make music)

the areas i see ppl getting confused are the layers, when in reality, its the same synth x 8

[wagtunes]

i think anyone with a basic understanding of synthesis can get to grips with D3 as easily as a minimoog.

if you want to go deeper you have to put the effort in, same with any synth. I wouldnt expect a complete noob to figure out how Synth1 worked, let alone D3. I also dont think its a hard synth to learn as it follows all the basic paradigms.

The majority of softsynth users are preset whores/tweakers, so i imagine the poll would say its "hard to program" as they actually have no idea how to. (which is totally fine, some ppl just like to make music)

the areas i see ppl getting confused are the layers, when in reality, its the same synth x 8

Just to be clear, as I said, I find Dune 3 very easy to program. I've made 3 libraries for Dune 2 and 3 already.

What bothers me is when others can't concede that MAYBE others might have problems doing something. If they can do it, then the whole world should be able to do it.

It's that kind of attitude that makes me kind of hate mankind in general at times.

[AnX]

i think anyone with a basic understanding of synthesis can get to grips with D3 as easily as a minimoog.

if you want to go deeper you have to put the effort in, same with any synth. I wouldnt expect a complete noob to figure out how Synth1 worked, let alone D3. I also dont think its a hard synth to learn as it follows all the basic paradigms.

The majority of softsynth users are preset whores/tweakers, so i imagine the poll would say its "hard to program" as they actually have no idea how to. (which is totally fine, some ppl just like to make music)

the areas i see ppl getting confused are the layers, when in reality, its the same synth x 8

Just to be clear, as I said, I find Dune 3 very easy to program. I've made 3 libraries for Dune 2 and 3 already.

What bothers me is when others can't concede that MAYBE others might have problems doing something. If they can do it, then the whole world should be able to do it.

It's that kind of attitude that makes me kind of hate mankind in general at times.

yes, i know what you said, im not digging you out. My point is, its only as complex as you make it, and that sometimes requires some effort/learning from the user.

i didnt have any more probs learning Dune than i did any other similar synth. (except the new WT editor, which i havent touched)

[DavidCarlyon]

Just dropped in to say after using D3 for a couple of months now i am probably using it more than any other synth (falcon, avenger, serum, etc etc etc you know the picture)

I just pull this synth up, make an init...and five minutes later i have an amazing sounding patch. Whether it's plucky bass, legato lead, pads, noise sweeps. Everything just sounds amazing with this synth and i just find it so much quicker to use than the others.

Also it seems incredibly light on CPU. This combination is why it gets used the most. Congrats to Richard for making a synth that sounds as good or better than any and all of the competition, all while taking a fraction of the resources.

Also the thing i love is - you can make great sounds with one layer, still sounding amazingly fat. Of course you can dig in as deep as you like. It doesn't go to crazy depths like the modular synths, it isn't endless like falcon - it's just a really solid synth with a bunch of layers and fantastic building blocks (osc, fltr fx)
which really is exactly what i want these days.

Couldn't be happier

[EnGee]

I just wanted to explain what I don't like or what I feel it needs improvements in the design/workflow. I'm not bashing Dune 3 at all, but I'm waiting for a bigger upgrade for my Dune 2 than the third one.

In the image below I highlighted the areas that I dislike with red colour while the areas with green colour are empty or needs a better space management (this is almost the same that apply on Dune 2).

The navigation of the presets/banks shouldn't be tied to one tab (Main in this case), while the mod matrix and both the ARPs need to be moved to a bigger area like the keyboard area. Also the layers need to be indicated (with volume like indication, so I know at least which layer is doing what by just one glimpse). Also, "All" should means "global" so it mean apply on all layers, right?

What about all these green spaces? Why not extending the three oscillators to be all visible?!

I don't know man! It just feels messy for more than one layer or two in case of programming your own, while it is a "puzzle" to solve every time you try to understand a complex multi layer preset (which is good for sound designers I guess, so they already have their copyright implemented ).

[Saukar30]

If one can prgram Wasp, Synth1 or any other simple VA synth, you can program D3. The only difference is 8 layers, and the sharing of arps, mod matrix, lfos & fx.

And... you dont need a science laboratory brain to do either.

[BONES]

Now could there be improvements in the way the Layers are accessed or the visual representation of the Mod Matrix ? I suppose it could be improved for those who struggle with such things but these are features of convenience not features of function. In other words making the Mod Matrix bigger will not make D3 sound any different.

You say that as though one is somehow of more value than the other, as though features are the only thing that matter. Maybe that's true for you but I would happily trade all the wavetable stuff that went into D3 for better workflow. If I want to do wavetable things, I have both Wave Fusion and Ultran in Orion. It's old technology that just happens to be trendy at the moment for some reason. DUNE 3 seems to me to have features simply for the sake of features, not because it was crying out for more than it already had. OTOH, it is definitely crying out for usability improvements, yet we got precisely zero in the update. Sadly, all the things that made D2 a punish came over to D3 intact.

Bottom line is D3 is an awesome sounding synth that might require you to spend a little time with it to become comfortable....like any instrument.

That's patently not true. I've spent orders of magnitude more time with DUNE than I have with Thorn or even Hive (which I only got last week), yet I feel I know both those synths at least as well as I know DUNE. I am certainly far more likely to reach for either than I am to load up DUNE. I don't find any of them hard to understand, DUNE is certainly infinitely easier to work with than Analog Keys, it's just that it's harder to use. Yes, DUNE undoubtedly sounds better than anything else I have but a lot of the time it makes more sense to go for something that sounds 95% as good but is 10 times faster to get a result from.

Is there room for improvement ? Of course as I said earlier but since we don't know if Synapse plans on developing Dune to version 4 or on past its current version of 3.07 we can either enjoy it for what it is now or we can spend our time bitching about what it isn't.

Or we can use other things that aren't such a punish. It's an interesting point about further development. Rich is certainly one to lose interest and discontinue products - Junglist, Hydra, Scorpion, the Poly800 emulation he made, Orion - so even though I hadn't really thought about it, it is a realistic possibility that this is as far as DUNE will go. It's not that he's capricious, it's the reality of being a two man operation - you can't support dozens of products so you either do something like the Thorn guy has done or you get a bit ruthless about culling older products so you can concentrate on what is making money for you. (Everybody has to eat.) Or maybe you look at growing your company, like u-he has done. I dunno, that's all up to Rich.