Anything particular you want to see from BFD3?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
User avatar
Burillo
KVRAF
3593 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell

Post Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:29 pm

Mr Arkadin wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:24 pm
I still use that editor! The only issue is as soon as you rescan (something I seem to have to do all too frequently) the Unknown Kits return and I have to set all the metadata again.
if you mean the metadata in the libraries - you have to use the library editor, not database editor. otherwise the changes won't persist between rescans.

if you mean various hidden presets, kitpieces etc. - i can't do anything about that, they're not to be found anywhere in the files.
From Russia with love

Mr Arkadin
KVRAF
1533 posts since 11 Mar, 2003

Re: Anything particular you want to see from BFD3?

Post Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:41 pm

Pointless babble from me as Windows 7 is no longer supported.
Last edited by Mr Arkadin on Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
plexuss
KVRAF
3113 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Anything particular you want to see from BFD3?

Post Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:30 pm

REVIVE TREMOR. And built it into BFD. I use BFD3 all the time. I also use Tremor and its really shame to kill it. Build it into BFD as another layer - that would make BFD very powerful and ahead of any other virtual drummer out there :phones:

User avatar
digitalboytn
KVRian
1376 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy

Re: Anything particular you want to see from BFD3?

Post Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:53 pm

Amberience wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:27 am
So what I proposed at the time was we did a 20bit version for the BFD2 content download in order to cut down on the size and make it easier for us to upload and ship it, and for the users to download it. We got quite a bit of feedback on that - not always put as politely as you have! But yes, that was a mistake. I hang my head in shame.
Guilty as charged your honor and proud of it :wink:

The good thing is that the guys at FXpansion were well aware of the crap that was being hurled at them for this "minor indiscretion" and
they found a better and more sustainable solution :clap:
Amberience wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:27 am
The BFD2 content was repackaged as the BFD London Sessions pack. Because that content is actually really damn good and it deserved to be kept. And it's fully 24bit.
The drums recorded for the BFD2 library are excellent :tu:

Not a high velocity count compared to the Platinum Samples stuff,but an excellent tone and the room sound from AIR Studios is really nice...

Gareth and the team did a great job with that sound set...

Bring them back for more !
Amberience wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:27 am
So the TLDR; I tried it for one release, it wasn't necessary and got us some negative feedback, so I never did it again.
You sound like a naughty schoolboy standing in front of the headmaster who has a cane in his hand :lol:
Sorry - I don't use auto-tune....

User avatar
Burillo
KVRAF
3593 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell

Re: Anything particular you want to see from BFD3?

Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:30 am

Mr Arkadin wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:41 pm
Burillo wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:29 pm
if you mean the metadata in the libraries - you have to use the library editor, not database editor. otherwise the changes won't persist between rescans.

if you mean various hidden presets, kitpieces etc. - i can't do anything about that, they're not to be found anywhere in the files.
Thanks for providing this utility. However I'm a bit confused. The program I use is called "BFD3 Metadata Editor". Was there another program? If so I never saw or used that. Is it still usable with the current version of BFD3 and where would I download it?

Cheers,
Antony
no, what i mean is, there are two modes - the database, and kitpiece editing. i can't recall which one is the default, but i'm pretty sure it's kitpiece editing. database editing is really there for when you need something fixed that cannot be fixed by a library rescan. kitpiece edits actual kitpiece metadata in the library, while database editor edits the BFD3's cached kitpiece database (so that you don't need to rescan your library each time you start BFD3). you should use the former, not the latter, if you want your changes to persist between rescans.

@Amberience, apologies for hijacking your thread!
From Russia with love

Amberience
KVRAF
7048 posts since 7 Mar, 2003

Re: Anything particular you want to see from BFD3?

Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:54 am

plexuss wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:30 pm
REVIVE TREMOR. And built it into BFD. I use BFD3 all the time. I also use Tremor and its really shame to kill it. Build it into BFD as another layer - that would make BFD very powerful and ahead of any other virtual drummer out there :phones:
I will be completely honest with you. I'm not keen on the idea. Aside from resource implications (CPU namely) Tremor doesn't really fit into the BFD story - which has always been about providing the highest quality acoustic drumkit experience.

I can't talk too much about Tremor, but what I can say is that the tech inside Tremor is too good to let it just sit. Many of us have made noises about utilising it's tech in a more modern up to date product. So watch this space - maybe something will happen!

Regarding synthesized drum-sounds in BFD - would an expansion pack not cover your needs for the most part?

(I know that's not exactly the response you wanted, but I'm not gonna blow smoke up yer ass!)
My Youtube Channel - Wires Dream Disasters :: My Band - Tacoma Narrows Bridge Disaster
Disclosure: I'm an audio engineer, product owner, and content developer working for FXpansion Audio UK Ltd.

Amberience
KVRAF
7048 posts since 7 Mar, 2003

Re: Anything particular you want to see from BFD3?

Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:01 am

digitalboytn wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:53 pm
Amberience wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:27 am
So what I proposed at the time was we did a 20bit version for the BFD2 content download in order to cut down on the size and make it easier for us to upload and ship it, and for the users to download it. We got quite a bit of feedback on that - not always put as politely as you have! But yes, that was a mistake. I hang my head in shame.
Guilty as charged your honor and proud of it :wink:

The good thing is that the guys at FXpansion were well aware of the crap that was being hurled at them for this "minor indiscretion" and
they found a better and more sustainable solution :clap:
Amberience wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:27 am
The BFD2 content was repackaged as the BFD London Sessions pack. Because that content is actually really damn good and it deserved to be kept. And it's fully 24bit.
The drums recorded for the BFD2 library are excellent :tu:

Not a high velocity count compared to the Platinum Samples stuff,but an excellent tone and the room sound from AIR Studios is really nice...

Gareth and the team did a great job with that sound set...

Bring them back for more !
Amberience wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:27 am
So the TLDR; I tried it for one release, it wasn't necessary and got us some negative feedback, so I never did it again.
You sound like a naughty schoolboy standing in front of the headmaster who has a cane in his hand :lol:
Well, fundamentally that decision was chiefly mind. So I am a naughty schoolboy in front of the headmaster. :lol:

We're recording a lot of our expansion packs in house where possible now. It's more cost effective for us to do so and we get complete and utter control. Which is important for quality and establishing a new direction for what we aim to capture. For instance, I'm pretty resolute on recording snares with wires on and off, because off is a really cool sound. And there is nothing more frustrating to me than when I want to emulate what a real drummer does (IE: using both sounds in a single song) and not being able to do it because company X or Y didn't provide those sounds.

It's double the work for us. But for me, it's worth it. We're also pretty resolute on having great marketing stuff to accompany the packs - nothing worse than a sample pack with crap demos and a high price-tag (I've just put a target on my back for that one I'm sure!)

We're getting a new console put into the studio over the coming weeks, which means we'll be able to setup and record much quicker than previously. So more and more packs can get done.

Also, someone mentioned velocity layers. All of our most recent packs have a high amount of velocities and channels, so they're more dynamic and unique than some of the older ones. Which means your songs can sound more dynamic and unique given all the extra options.

For BFD Horsepower we mic'd up a trash-can that was in the room at the time of recording. You have some wonderful resonant drum sounds from that channel alone!
My Youtube Channel - Wires Dream Disasters :: My Band - Tacoma Narrows Bridge Disaster
Disclosure: I'm an audio engineer, product owner, and content developer working for FXpansion Audio UK Ltd.

Amberience
KVRAF
7048 posts since 7 Mar, 2003

Re: Anything particular you want to see from BFD3?

Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:02 am

Burillo wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:30 am
Mr Arkadin wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:41 pm
Burillo wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:29 pm
if you mean the metadata in the libraries - you have to use the library editor, not database editor. otherwise the changes won't persist between rescans.

if you mean various hidden presets, kitpieces etc. - i can't do anything about that, they're not to be found anywhere in the files.
Thanks for providing this utility. However I'm a bit confused. The program I use is called "BFD3 Metadata Editor". Was there another program? If so I never saw or used that. Is it still usable with the current version of BFD3 and where would I download it?

Cheers,
Antony
no, what i mean is, there are two modes - the database, and kitpiece editing. i can't recall which one is the default, but i'm pretty sure it's kitpiece editing. database editing is really there for when you need something fixed that cannot be fixed by a library rescan. kitpiece edits actual kitpiece metadata in the library, while database editor edits the BFD3's cached kitpiece database (so that you don't need to rescan your library each time you start BFD3). you should use the former, not the latter, if you want your changes to persist between rescans.

@Amberience, apologies for hijacking your thread!
No worries!
My Youtube Channel - Wires Dream Disasters :: My Band - Tacoma Narrows Bridge Disaster
Disclosure: I'm an audio engineer, product owner, and content developer working for FXpansion Audio UK Ltd.

Mr Arkadin
KVRAF
1533 posts since 11 Mar, 2003

Re: Anything particular you want to see from BFD3?

Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:07 am

Pointless babble from me as Windows 7 is no longer supported.
Last edited by Mr Arkadin on Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jancivil
KVRAF
18840 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Anything particular you want to see from BFD3?

Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:23 am

One thing I would like to see is modeled variable response on the snares. Kind of deeply. EG: modeled bounce response for multiple-stroke rolls. I'm conceptualizing this as *degree of bounce as variable* (for each hand, ie., based in a one handed roll; so you could go from any type to buzz roll) in the interface. I don't have an E-kit and I'm not likely to get something that useful via sticks with what I have and I'm not into throwing a lot of money at this, so I mean in terms of a workflow in piano roll if not drum editor.

It's a lot of work to create this illusion. I'm unsure of the ultimate value of recording more placement on the head [than the given edge, near edge, center, rim] not having a snare drum in front of me to explore, but maybe.

Amberience
KVRAF
7048 posts since 7 Mar, 2003

Re: Anything particular you want to see from BFD3?

Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:05 pm

jancivil wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:23 am
One thing I would like to see is modeled variable response on the snares. Kind of deeply. EG: modeled bounce response for multiple-stroke rolls. I'm conceptualizing this as *degree of bounce as variable* (for each hand, ie., based in a one handed roll; so you could go from any type to buzz roll) in the interface. I don't have an E-kit and I'm not likely to get something that useful via sticks with what I have and I'm not into throwing a lot of money at this, so I mean in terms of a workflow in piano roll if not drum editor.

It's a lot of work to create this illusion. I'm unsure of the ultimate value of recording more placement on the head [than the given edge, near edge, center, rim] not having a snare drum in front of me to explore, but maybe.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say "bounce response" - are you talking about how many strokes you get out of one single limb movement?

Do you have a soundclip that demonstrates what you're talking about?
My Youtube Channel - Wires Dream Disasters :: My Band - Tacoma Narrows Bridge Disaster
Disclosure: I'm an audio engineer, product owner, and content developer working for FXpansion Audio UK Ltd.

User avatar
jancivil
KVRAF
18840 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Anything particular you want to see from BFD3?

Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:53 pm

To form any roll beyond a single stroke roll, you let the stick bounce so you get two strikes on the skin from one, basically wrist movement. Five stroke roll: rr ll r. The duplicated r or l is bounced, it's r l r with that bit of help.

So a variable model, in my mind, would give 2 to n, I don't know what higher number*. rrr lll etc seems a bit fancy in isolation, but let's analyze the buzz roll:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dksnMtV5Suc

So we might as well provide the control. There he presents two bounces, rrr, as an open buzz roll, and five, rrrrrr as a closed one. *: He goes up to 16 in this lesson.

Main idea being, two discrete notes with the second of rr via a lower velocity is not it; quite like the wash of cymbals doesn't happen without it having been modeled. It's a more subtle thing than that, but the actual response, the physics of what happens to the snare drum head is not present (and then the acoustic response, + the actual snares if 'on'), and for me the reality is never really there.
And for a buzz roll, it's stringing together multiple buzz articulations which can be quite different depending on the kit piece selection. Both are more work than is ideal, and I think achievable with today's technology.

User avatar
plexuss
KVRAF
3113 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Anything particular you want to see from BFD3?

Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:09 pm

Amberience wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:54 am
plexuss wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:30 pm
REVIVE TREMOR. And built it into BFD. I use BFD3 all the time. I also use Tremor and its really shame to kill it. Build it into BFD as another layer - that would make BFD very powerful and ahead of any other virtual drummer out there :phones:
I can't talk too much about Tremor, but what I can say is that the tech inside Tremor is too good to let it just sit. Many of us have made noises about utilising it's tech in a more modern up to date product. So watch this space - maybe something will happen!

Regarding synthesized drum-sounds in BFD - would an expansion pack not cover your needs for the most part?

(I know that's not exactly the response you wanted, but I'm not gonna blow smoke up yer ass!)
The pont of my suggestion was to revive Tremor. Ignoring it is a travesty because it's such a good audio tool. Hopefully you can convice your bean counters to get it back into development. Maybe issue a survey to customers that own it to get a sense of their opinion about unsupporting it? :phones:

Amberience
KVRAF
7048 posts since 7 Mar, 2003

Re: Anything particular you want to see from BFD3?

Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:10 pm

jancivil wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:53 pm
To form any roll beyond a single stroke roll, you let the stick bounce so you get two strikes on the skin from one, basically wrist movement. Five stroke roll: rr ll r. The duplicated r or l is bounced, it's r l r with that bit of help.

So a variable model, in my mind, would give 2 to n, I don't know what higher number*. rrr lll etc seems a bit fancy in isolation, but let's analyze the buzz roll:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dksnMtV5Suc

So we might as well provide the control. There he presents two bounces, rrr, as an open buzz roll, and five, rrrrrr as a closed one. *: He goes up to 16 in this lesson.

Main idea being, two discrete notes with the second of rr via a lower velocity is not it; quite like the wash of cymbals doesn't happen without it having been modeled. It's a more subtle thing than that, but the actual response, the physics of what happens to the snare drum head is not present (and then the acoustic response, + the actual snares if 'on'), and for me the reality is never really there.
And for a buzz roll, it's stringing together multiple buzz articulations which can be quite different depending on the kit piece selection. Both are more work than is ideal, and I think achievable with today's technology.
Thanks for that. I think I get what you're saying. In a way, I kind of do this when I record the drags articulation - you'll notice in metal snares for instance that the harder I hit the drag, the less of a 'buzz' feel there is to them. I did that because a lot of people like to use harder drags for their ghost notes, and the quieter drags to add that buzz-roll texture.

I think there probably is something we can do here. Need to chew on this.
My Youtube Channel - Wires Dream Disasters :: My Band - Tacoma Narrows Bridge Disaster
Disclosure: I'm an audio engineer, product owner, and content developer working for FXpansion Audio UK Ltd.

User avatar
plexuss
KVRAF
3113 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Anything particular you want to see from BFD3?

Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:10 pm

https://soundcloud.com/musicofplexus/bfd3-solo/s-j7BMI
Youlean Loudness Meter Export DARK.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Return to “Instruments”