Vember Audio Surge is now open-source

[baconpaul]

Oooh that is helpful to know; if only to know that the problem can be solved. Is Complete Kontrol a VST2 or a VST3 do you happen to know? Thanks!

[zzz00m]

Oooh that is helpful to know; if only to know that the problem can be solved. Is Complete Kontrol a VST2 or a VST3 do you happen to know? Thanks!

It appears that all of the Native Instruments plugins that I have installed are VST2 only, including Komplete Kontrol.

Ran across this discussion in the NI forum: "Still no VST3 Support?"
https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... rt.327891/

[planetearth]

Oooh that is helpful to know; if only to know that the problem can be solved. Is Complete Kontrol a VST2 or a VST3 do you happen to know? Thanks!

It appears that all of the Native Instruments plugins that I have installed are VST2 only, including Komplete Kontrol.

Yes, as with all of NI's stuff, Komplete Kontrol is a VST2, though at least it's 64-bit.

I don't have it installed, since I never used it and didn't really think I'd need what it offers, but maybe I'll try this. Thanks!

Steve

[planetearth]

An entry also referring to @zzz00m's post about the VST2 version is also in the Github post, but it simply refers to "Cakewalk", so I doubt it's referring to the more widely used Cakewalk Sonar, instead of the newer Cakewalk by Bandlab. The two share much of the same code base (for now), but there's no guarantee a fix in one will work in the other.

Steve

I have the final release of Cakewalk Sonar Platinum (2017.10), as well as the most recent version of the DAW, which is Cakewalk by BandLab (2019.05), which has had some updates and bug fixes to the core DAW code since 2017. BandLab hired the former chief developer and CTO of Cakewalk, as well as some of the former dev team to continue development support of the program. So it has been incrementally improved, and is not an entirely new program.

But in regards to this zoom issue in Surge, in my testing I see the same Surge behavior in both versions of Cakewalk, with the exception that the VST3 version of the Surge plugin does not have the zoom feature disabled in Cakewalk Sonar.

In summary, the zoom is only disabled in the VST3 for Cakewalk by Bandlab.

I believe we're saying the same things here. I was just pointing out (mostly for @baconpaul's benefit) that the Github posts didn't specify which version of Cakewalk/Sonar they were referring to, and I know it can be confusing for people who weren't familiar with the DAW before BandLab took over, and may not know there are differences.

And from what @baconpaul has said, it appears the issue has more to do with the coding than the particular DAW, so until the new devs can find someone familiar with the coding, this issue may have to wait--and I can understand that.

Steve

I wasn't really trying to go that deep regarding the Github post, just pointing out that the zoom feature had not been disabled in the VST2 version yet.

Was just trying to provide feedback on the temporary fix (i.e., disable zoom). I realize that there are some coding fixes required to enable zoom to work correctly with this DAW.

You are the one that brought up the potential differences in Cakewalk vs. Sonar, so I was just trying to add some detail to that statement, not trying to add any confusion.

Right. I think we're on the same page here, and we're both just trying to clarify things for @baconpaul (who already seems to have a pretty good handle on all of this!).

Steve

[planetearth]

And from what @baconpaul has said, it appears the issue has more to do with the coding than the particular DAW, so until the new devs can find someone familiar with the coding, this issue may have to wait--and I can understand that.

So it’s a mix actually. Zoom works fine in AU/Logic, Abelton, FL/VST3, Reaper windows, Carla/VST2 etc... we have a pretty long list.

[Snip]

If I used windows for music and primary dev, as opposed to just having a windows VM for testing surge and rack development stuff, I would probably have had many of these fixed by now (I use LogicPro/Mac for all my music making; and my debugging skills on unixen are way higher than on windows). I have a couple of ideas on what to do - especially with cakewalk - which is why I aspirationally tagged the zoom issues all 1.6.2 (which is the tag I’m using for our Sep30 drop) and will try and work on these this summer sometime. But honestly, it is a bit less fun than adding non-standard tuning, and this is just a hobby! [Emphasis mine]

But the other reason I tossed this comment in is: I appreciate the context you both added. “Good bug reports make good software” so having clear github issue list is the best way to get things organized. You can all make github ids for free, by the way, and just go subscribe to the issue you care about or add comments. That way when they get addressed you can try nightlies and the like.

I can't speak for everyone (though, of course, I will ), but we all appreciate what you're doing with the plug-in, how much work it is, and how some parts are just not as fun or interesting as others. And I hope you don't think any of us "expects" anything from this, or is impatient or anything like that. Sometimes it's difficult to express what we want to say in text, and reporting bugs can easily sound "negative" when it's not meant that way. But I think you know by now that we're all just trying to help in any way we can, and when you decide the plug-in is "finished", then it's finished, and that's that.

Steve

[zzz00m]

Oooh that is helpful to know; if only to know that the problem can be solved. Is Complete Kontrol a VST2 or a VST3 do you happen to know? Thanks!

It appears that all of the Native Instruments plugins that I have installed are VST2 only, including Komplete Kontrol.

Yes, as with all of NI's stuff, Komplete Kontrol is a VST2, though at least it's 64-bit.

I don't have it installed, since I never used it and didn't really think I'd need what it offers, but maybe I'll try this. Thanks!

Steve

Yep, it's a pretty cool tool. It also helps with some NKS compatible plugins that have lousy built-in preset browsers, such as the 90's era pull down style menus (can you hear me Waves?).

The latest Komplete Kontrol is included with the free Komplete Start bundle from NI. https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... ete-start/

Step into music production with KOMPLETE START – a curated selection of studio-quality instruments, effects, utilities, loops, and samples for the low price of nothing at all. Play over 2,000 customizable sounds – drums and percussion, bass, acoustic instruments, synths, pads and atmospheres, effects, and more. And did we mention it’s free?

[sping]

Ok, I think I found a work-around in Cakewalk.
Using Savihost (or any zooming host), zoom surge to prefs. and set as default zoom.
Now, when you open surge in cakewalk, it's zoomed correct to that zoom.

[Ficciones]

I tried one of the nightlies with .scl support and it appeared to work as expected with non 12 tone divisions. However there was a possibly non related bug where notes were being dropped. Will try another nightly soon and see if the bug is still happening, and file a report if it is.

Really appreciate the effort you're putting into this open source project, and the microtuning support!

[zzz00m]

Ok, I think I found a work-around in Cakewalk.
Using Savihost (or any zooming host), zoom surge to prefs. and set as default zoom.
Now, when you open surge in cakewalk, it's zoomed correct to that zoom.

Hey! Great find!

I never noticed that option to change the default!

That works fine with the VST2 in Cakewalk, but since the VST3 version now has the zoom function disabled in the menu, it doesn't seem to refer to the new default zoom level. It seems to remain locked to the initial zoom state (smallest, or 100%) for the plugin.

Update: I just tested with Sonar Platinum, and it works with both VST2 & VST3. So it appears that the zoom function is only currently disabled for the VST3 in Cakewalk by BandLab.

[planetearth]

Ok, I think I found a work-around in Cakewalk.
Using Savihost (or any zooming host), zoom surge to prefs. and set as default zoom.
Now, when you open surge in cakewalk, it's zoomed correct to that zoom.

Excellent! Thank you!

Steve

[baconpaul]

Ok, I think I found a work-around in Cakewalk.
Using Savihost (or any zooming host), zoom surge to prefs. and set as default zoom.
Now, when you open surge in cakewalk, it's zoomed correct to that zoom.

Hey! Great find!

I never noticed that option to change the default!

That works fine with the VST2 in Cakewalk, but since the VST3 version now has the zoom function disabled in the menu, it doesn't seem to refer to the new default zoom level. It seems to remain locked to the initial zoom state (smallest, or 100%) for the plugin.

Update: I just tested with Sonar Platinum, and it works with both VST2 & VST3. So it appears that the zoom function is only currently disabled for the VST3 in Cakewalk by BandLab.

Hey yeah this is a really cool find. I can't believe I didn't think of it.

You can also edit the default in the XML file once you have set it. There's a file in %DOCUMENTS/Surge called SurgeUserDefaults.xml and you can just edit that in any text editor if you set a default zoom once.

Of course you need to restart your DAW to get this so it isn't a great fix but it is really clever. Thanks for trying and reporting it! (And it makes total sense in the code path and gives me a hint how to fix the larger problem in this host).

Since this is an option, I am also pushing a change right now which will re-enable zoom in Cakewalk VST3. If you grab a nightly any time after around 11pm eastern on July 16 2019 from surge-synthesizer.github.io you should get it (plus you get some other cool new features, like way better temposync display and an option to have absolute pitch adjustment on oscillators as well as relative).

[baconpaul]

I can't speak for everyone (though, of course, I will ), but we all appreciate what you're doing with the plug-in,

Steve

Thanks for the kind comments, Steve!

[baconpaul]

I tried one of the nightlies with .scl support and it appeared to work as expected with non 12 tone divisions. However there was a possibly non related bug where notes were being dropped. Will try another nightly soon and see if the bug is still happening, and file a report if it is.

Really appreciate the effort you're putting into this open source project, and the microtuning support!

Oooh we haven't heard about note drops in a while. If you can reproduce it I would really like to know.

Before we ship 1.6.2 the tuning will also save with the patch, which will make it way less frustrating to use I think!

[Ficciones]

Oooh we haven't heard about note drops in a while. If you can reproduce it I would really like to know.

Sure. I still have the nightly installer, it's from the 11th. Want me to try with that, or a newer nightly?

[baconpaul]

Oooh we haven't heard about note drops in a while. If you can reproduce it I would really like to know.

Sure. I still have the nightly installer, it's from the 11th. Want me to try with that, or a newer nightly?

The newest nightly is always best yeah if you don’t mind! Thank you.