Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Out Now!)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
dblock
KVRAF
2321 posts since 25 Feb, 2005

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:49 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:36 am
So many words, and thoughts. When you could just demo the thing when it comes out.
Sure, I will demo it when it comes out. I also can't remember a single time when a new product launch was anticipated sometimes for months and nobody would post their thoughts sometimes even using "many words" until the demo was out. That's what we do here. :wink:
Last edited by dblock on Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
55012 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Coming June 27th)

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:50 am

yup, its talk bollocks about synths or we end up just posting pics of our dinner :shrug:

dblock
KVRAF
2321 posts since 25 Feb, 2005

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Coming June 27th)

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:51 am

vurt wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:50 am
yup, its talk bollocks about synths or we end up just posting pics of our dinner :shrug:
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

chk071
Suspended
22458 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Coming June 27th)

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:56 am

dblock wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:49 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:36 am
So many words, and thoughts. When you could just demo the thing when it comes out.
Sure, I will demo it when it comes out. I also can't remember a single time when a new product launch was anticipated sometimes for months and nobody would post their thoughts sometimes even using "many words" until the demo was out. That's what we do here. :wink:
I think there is a bit of a difference between sharing the thoughts about a synth, and getting scared about a screenshot, when you have - no idea how it performs on your system - no idea how many voices they've played there - no idea whether it was a expensive preset or not.

What we have is Mr. ED's statements that it will be a expensive synth, but, a good sounding one. That's something tangible. Not a screenshots which has no informational value, apart from viewing the GUI, and the feature set.

chk071
Suspended
22458 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Coming June 27th)

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:57 am

They could have also taken a picture showing 1% CPU usage. And people would have taken it for... well... for what exactly? Run 100 instances running expensive patches on every computer? Hardly.

Maybe i'll shoot them a mail, and say that they should post screenshots with 10% CPU usage. Seems to be a good compromise, which doesn't scare people off, but make them aware that it won't use nothing. ;)

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Sinisterbr
KVRist
222 posts since 11 Mar, 2010

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Coming June 27th)

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:13 am

I also think it's kinda pointless to discuss CPU usage atm.

dblock
KVRAF
2321 posts since 25 Feb, 2005

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Coming June 27th)

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:20 am

Sinisterbr wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:13 am
I also think it's kinda pointless to discuss CPU usage atm.
That's ok. There are aspects of different products I'm not interested in either so I don't get into discussing them. That's just how it is.You pick what you want to talk about and maybe somebody else does to and sometimes not so much. It's all good.

dblock
KVRAF
2321 posts since 25 Feb, 2005

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Coming June 27th)

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:29 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:57 am
They could have also taken a picture showing 1% CPU usage. And people would have taken it for... well... for what exactly? Run 100 instances running expensive patches on every computer? Hardly.

Maybe i'll shoot them a mail, and say that they should post screenshots with 10% CPU usage. Seems to be a good compromise, which doesn't scare people off, but make them aware that it won't use nothing. ;)
Go for it. :) New products arouse curiosity and we look for clues in different places for what we "might" expect. We put 2+2 together and sometimes get 5 sometimes not. But as I already stated,maybe, just maybe it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect that because of the processing ability of the synth, it is possible you could run up some cpu usage and that possibility might be reflected in the screenshot that if captured in real time, could offer a "possible" clue. Someone else like yourself can choose to dismiss it completely if you want. Not saying I'm right, just saying I might be.
Last edited by dblock on Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:15 pm, edited 5 times in total.

dblock
KVRAF
2321 posts since 25 Feb, 2005

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Coming June 27th)

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:44 am

oops. double post

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wagtunes
KVRAF
17670 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Coming June 27th)

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:57 am

In this day and age where you can create a track and freeze it, does CPU usage really mean that much? I mean I have plenty of songs where I'm using 40 to 50 tracks of some pretty CPU intensive synths. I'm sure as hell not doing that without freezing them, including freezing the FX which, in some cases, take up more CPU than the synth it's on. Go try running multiple instances of some of Melda's plugins without having to freeze tracks. Let me know how you make out.

ghettosynth
KVRAF
12083 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Coming June 27th)

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:57 am

chk071 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:57 am
They could have also taken a picture showing 1% CPU usage. And people would have taken it for... well... for what exactly? Run 100 instances running expensive patches on every computer? Hardly.

Maybe i'll shoot them a mail, and say that they should post screenshots with 10% CPU usage. Seems to be a good compromise, which doesn't scare people off, but make them aware that it won't use nothing. ;)
Based on Ed's comments, it sounds like that this may not run at 10% on any modern CPU. If it wouldn't run at all on a non AVX CPU then that may tell you that there is a baseline CPU usage just to get one signal path through the synth.

I bet that 33% on a modern, probably fast, CPU, is going to be what you should expect under normal high quality use cases and that it's going to kill an outdated CPU.

I love products like these, push those boundaries!

dblock
KVRAF
2321 posts since 25 Feb, 2005

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Coming June 27th)

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:02 am

wagtunes wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:57 am
In this day and age where you can create a track and freeze it, does CPU usage really mean that much? I mean I have plenty of songs where I'm using 40 to 50 tracks of some pretty CPU intensive synths. I'm sure as hell not doing that without freezing them, including freezing the FX which, in some cases, take up more CPU than the synth it's on. Go try running multiple instances of some of Melda's plugins without having to freeze tracks. Let me know how you make out.
I hear what you're saying wagtunes. But for my workflow, I really dislike freezing tracks because I do everything as I compose including mixing so I would be constantly freezing and unfreezing tracks. I tried multiple times to work like that but it became a bottleneck for the way I like to work otherwise I would do that.
Last edited by dblock on Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

dblock
KVRAF
2321 posts since 25 Feb, 2005

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Coming June 27th)

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:09 am

ghettosynth wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:57 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:57 am
They could have also taken a picture showing 1% CPU usage. And people would have taken it for... well... for what exactly? Run 100 instances running expensive patches on every computer? Hardly.

Maybe i'll shoot them a mail, and say that they should post screenshots with 10% CPU usage. Seems to be a good compromise, which doesn't scare people off, but make them aware that it won't use nothing. ;)
Based on Ed's comments, it sounds like that this may not run at 10% on any modern CPU. If it wouldn't run at all on a non AVX CPU then that may tell you that there is a baseline CPU usage just to get one signal path through the synth.

I bet that 33% on a modern, probably fast, CPU, is going to be what you should expect under normal high quality use cases and that it's going to kill an outdated CPU.

I love products like these, push those boundaries!
I'm hanging on to my Windows 7 Neko XXL for as long as possible but I know sooner or later I will have to get a whole new setup and music is going to have to pay for it but for now, I have to be a bit more mindful than I care to be than someone who has a more up to date computer setup when it comes to the new stuff that comes out and the resources it uses.

ghettosynth
KVRAF
12083 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Coming June 27th)

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:26 am

dblock wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:09 am
ghettosynth wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:57 am
chk071 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:57 am
They could have also taken a picture showing 1% CPU usage. And people would have taken it for... well... for what exactly? Run 100 instances running expensive patches on every computer? Hardly.

Maybe i'll shoot them a mail, and say that they should post screenshots with 10% CPU usage. Seems to be a good compromise, which doesn't scare people off, but make them aware that it won't use nothing. ;)
Based on Ed's comments, it sounds like that this may not run at 10% on any modern CPU. If it wouldn't run at all on a non AVX CPU then that may tell you that there is a baseline CPU usage just to get one signal path through the synth.

I bet that 33% on a modern, probably fast, CPU, is going to be what you should expect under normal high quality use cases and that it's going to kill an outdated CPU.

I love products like these, push those boundaries!
I'm hanging on to my Windows 7 Neko XXL for as long as possible but I know sooner or later I will have to get a whole new setup and music is going to have to pay for it but for now, I have to be a bit more mindful than I care to be than someone who has a more up to date computer setup when it comes to the new stuff that comes out and the resources it uses.
Here's something to think about, and this is my advice to anyone in your situation with a purpose specific studio machine that may not be up to snuff with new software. The basic idea is to use more than one machine. This works quite well with Vienna Ensemble Pro. You run the high usage plugins on the second machine inside of VEP and you load a simple proxy plugin on your main workstation. In addition to giving you effectively more DSP resources, IMO, your main workstation is overall less stressed. It works best with gigabit ethernet, but, you can get by with 100 mbit. I don't know what the Neko has or whether you can add a network card.

So, one good way to integrate this smoothly is with a reasonably modern touch screen laptop. No, this software is probably not multitouch aware, but I've found that it's still useful to have a finger mouse. Flip that laptop over, put it in a stand so it looks just like a screen, attach a network cable and a power cable, and you're done.

Beyond just the CPU advantage, you now also have more U/I real estate and that can also improve your workflow.

Back in the 90s and before, people had to spend multiple thousands of dollars every few years just to upgrade their main keyboard to have the latest sounds. Now it's relatively cheap. My god, how much did Massive X cost if you were already a Komplete owner? For $99 you got an upgrade to the industry standard sampler, a handful of things that may or may not be interesting to you and this new modern synth. You have to do the math on that some way and I don't think that there's any fair way to say that this new synth cost more than $50 of that $99.

So, if you have an outdated system, adding an expansion module which will more than double your DSP, be general purpose, can load any power hungry synth that is currently available, and can do all of that for about $1500, what's the problem? I really don't get all of the teeth gnashing over CPU. Bonus, it doubles as a cool laptop when you're not making music!
Last edited by ghettosynth on Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

dblock
KVRAF
2321 posts since 25 Feb, 2005

Re: Native Instruments Massive X Synth - Sequel to Massive (Coming June 27th)

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:38 am

That's a pretty constructive suggestion to mull around ghettosynth.

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