Is there a Guitar VST that can do actually decent rhythm guitar?

[donkey tugger]

... than watching some twat DJ bouncing around behind his laptop fist pumping the air to his meticulously programmed set....

Thank the Muses for when good ideas/inspiration strikes...

For anyone who is looking (or knows of anyone who is looking) for a hip, provocative new artist name, I just did a quick Google search, and the moniker, "Twat DJs", is still available.

Snatch it now, before someone else takes it.

I did some lofi 4 track/casio sk-1 shite in the late 90s using 'DJ Twat' as a name. Unfortunately (thankfully...) I have none of the cassettes any more, so casn't prove any of this. Anyway, Donkey Tugger is a much better name.

[braj]

Yeah, never give up music, even if you suck at partner all of it, if you have a good time, that is all that matters.

[sjm]

But I prefer not to be told to give up music because I can't sing and can't play guitar worth shit.

Nobody said that, you just interpreted a load of things and went off the handle. Let's not derail this thread any further.

@OP: sorry, wasn't my intention to make the thread about this nonsense.

[tonedef71]

... than watching some twat DJ bouncing around behind his laptop fist pumping the air to his meticulously programmed set....

Thank the Muses for when good ideas/inspiration strikes...

For anyone who is looking (or knows of anyone who is looking) for a hip, provocative new artist name, I just did a quick Google search, and the moniker, "Twat DJs", is still available.

Snatch it now, before someone else takes it.

I did some lofi 4 track/casio sk-1 shite in the late 90s using 'DJ Twat' as a name. Unfortunately (thankfully...) I have none of the cassettes any more, so can't prove any of this. Anyway, Donkey Tugger is a much better name.

Other variations that crossed my mind were "Twat City DJs" and "The Twat Jockeys".

"Donkey Tugger" is pretty good.

Alternative variations might include "Monkey Mugger", "Mule Bugger", "Junk Puppet", "Dunk Puppie", "Hipster Dipster", "Humpty Dumpster", et al. ...

[wagtunes]

But I prefer not to be told to give up music because I can't sing and can't play guitar worth shit.

Nobody said that, you just interpreted a load of things and went off the handle. Let's not derail this thread any further.

@OP: sorry, wasn't my intention to make the thread about this nonsense.

Did I say anybody HERE said that? No, I didn't. These are things that have been said to me in the REAL world that has NOTHING to do with this forum. By friends even. Not everything here revolves around what people here say. There is an outside world out there with REAL people that I happen to live and exist in.

This place is nothing more than a virtual distraction.

[Photo_G]

This place is nothing more than a virtual distraction.

...and it's a DANG good one, that that!

G

[omac]

I think this was just a drive by. I think the OP should have responded again by now.

Just once I'd like someone asking a guitar VST question to phrase it as a request for examples of people using them and detail what they used. Maybe actual guitar players could listen to a riff and tell us VST users what notes and chords were played in the example, and we could make a midi file with correct voicings and then adjust it to be less robotic (and eliminate the quantized chord problems if applicable) and use what VSTs we have to render it. I think that would be more constructive and helpful to other readers of the thread. We all have our own favorite solutions. It would be great to get more actual specific examples of VST guitar usage to illustrate our preferences.

[wagtunes]

I think this was just a drive by. I think the OP should have responded again by now.

Just once I'd like someone asking a guitar VST question to phrase it as a request for examples of people using them and detail what they used. Maybe actual guitar players could listen to a riff and tell us VST users what notes and chords were played in the example, and we could make a midi file with correct voicings and then adjust it to be less robotic (and eliminate the quantized chord problems if applicable) and use what VSTs we have to render it. I think that would be more constructive and helpful to other readers of the thread. We all have our own favorite solutions. It would be great to get more actual specific examples of VST guitar usage to illustrate our preferences.

The better VSTs handle the voicing for you so that they're authentic guitar voicings. Depending on what inversion you use, you'll actually get a different sound on the chord.

That's why something like Vir2 Electri6ity is hundreds of dollars. They may not be perfect (nothing will ever replace a guitar) but they're damn good.

[sjm]

Just once I'd like someone asking a guitar VST question to phrase it as a request for examples of people using them and detail what they used. Maybe actual guitar players could listen to a riff and tell us VST users what notes and chords were played in the example, and we could make a midi file with correct voicings and then adjust it to be less robotic (and eliminate the quantized chord problems if applicable) and use what VSTs we have to render it. I think that would be more constructive and helpful to other readers of the thread. We all have our own favorite solutions. It would be great to get more actual specific examples of VST guitar usage to illustrate our preferences.

The best way to program guitar is to actually play the guitar. I don't mean like a guitar hero though. I mean enough to know how to strum a few chords and understand the basic fingering shapes. You can get the basic chords down in a week, and a month or two should be more than enough to understand how the instrument works.

The trick to programming any instrument - be it guitar, drums, strings or kazoo - is to understand how that instrument is played. The best way to connect with that is by having played the instrument yourself. You don't need to be a virtuoso, but you do want to understand the physical limitations of the instrument and what movements are required by the player. That will help you understand how to program the parts.

For example, with guitar, the arrangement of the strings (you typically have 6) and the direction in which you strum (up vs downstroke) dictate what notes are played and when. You will invariable go from low to high (downstroke) or high to low (upstroke) when strumming. You can of course shake up the order of the strings if you use funky finger picking techniques and your thumb.

The other important thing about guitar is that the intervals in the fingering are important, so knowing what string is playing what note is key. You can use chord charts to help you figure out possible fingerings. Generally, guitarists will avoid jumping around the fretboard where possible; if you are fingering an open A chord, chances are your D chord will also be open, rather than a barre chord on the 10th fret. Moving the left hand around takes time!


What I like to do is to borrow instruments from friends and play them long enough to be able to make some sounds and get a basic idea of the various techniques. Once I can imagine the movements of the player as they play a section, I find it a lot easier to program. It helps me feel the velocity and timing, and factor in things like the time it takes to move the hands/feet etc. That generally results in more believable MIDI parts.

[Jax Pok]

electr6ity + aMPLITUBE 4

[jancivil]

You know what else isn't easy, strings writing. I mean real strings writing, not simple pop strings or pads. Getting in there and voicing properly, getting the room right, desking your voicing now, a whole thing here. So many of the libraries try to do it all for you but it's pretty bogus and characterless.

THIS

(nothing will ever replace a guitar)

was the idea for a /thread over to Everything Else yesterday. regarding drums vs drums samples.

Thing is, I replace everything with something virtual. And the idea is not that this is a "mock-up" which I think isn't what it typically is to begin with. People who frequent KVR or GS or VI may listen to tracks to detect what's real. This is not normal behavior and I've not seen it outside these fora.

Once, I totally had to have someone play a sax, soprano sax. There is absolutely no way I could have created what he did. 100 bucks I had to shell out. Man what a bargain, this guy cut the track.
Next track on the album, I really needed more soprano, in several spots. guess what, I didn't want to spend money so I did the soprano bits. I didn't have to use my words to convey to someone who isn't me to get it to happen. It was a trade-off.

And I used someone for rhythm guitar twice. I won't have done that, a reggae scratch sort of thing throughout a track. Doable with virtual, yes. But it's good to have a contribution, again. I recommend having contributions. I found this individual at KVR, in fact (mikebeck). I met the saxamophonist at "Composers Forum" I think (Chris Kennedy). Fantastic contributions both.

Mostly I replace a role with virtual, it's compelling to me to do it and my idea is full realism every time. So it depends what 'replace' entails, doesn't it. Nothing 'replaces' PLAYING A GUITAR if you're any good, I would say this has truth going for it.[/quote]

[sjm]

People who frequent KVR or GS or VI may listen to tracks to detect what's real. This is not normal behavior and I've not seen it outside these fora.

There's an element of truth in that. Well OK, more than an element. But there are also different degrees of expectation from casual listeners. We're all so used to hearing things like workstation string ensemble patches filling out tracks, that we kind of thinks that's what strings sound like. But even the casual listener will be able to tell you that a classical solo piano piece sounds like robots playing if you hard quantise everything and leave everything at default velocity.

So I think there's a a shifting continuum there. Sometimes it doesn't matter if it sounds fake (80s workstation strings in a hip-hop song = legit), sometimes it does (My First Casio guitar solo climax in a metal epos = fail). And while the casual listener might not know why something sounds "weird" or "wrong", they can tell - at least when it's obvious.

The more acquainted someone is with an instrument, the easier they'll find it to spot a fake. I can normally tell a guitar is fake that convinces others, simply because I play the guitar every day. I'd probably have a hard time telling a halfway decent programmed xylophone from the real thing.

There's also nothing wrong with sounding fake on purpose. It's part of the charm of retro style game soundtracks, for example. If it sounded convincing, it would no longer sound like the classic gaming tracks of 20 years ago.

I guess this is going a bit off topic now, but I guess my point is that there are some instruments that are easier to fudge than others, and context is important too. AAS Strum is convincing enough if you needs some basic background chords for something. I was quite impressed how easy it was to play on the keyboard too. I'd definitely draw the line at cupped brass; I don't think there's any way you can convincingly program that.

[tonedef71]

The more acquainted someone is with an instrument, the easier they'll find it to spot a fake.

I agree. To the uninitiated, a virtual instrument may sound incredibly realistic.

I am not knowledgeable about real trumpet playing, but I do listen to some Chris Botti. To my ears, this lead trumpet virtual instrument sounds excellent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwPKJtVhD4M

[donkey tugger]

Another different perspective is that you can do impossible things with virtual instruments. I like chords with lots of drones and suspended/added notes anyway, but using sampled guitars (not in chord recognition mode, but making your own up) allows you to come up with things which sound guitar-like, but don't work by the normal constraints of guitar. Very good for shoegazy or 'post-rock' (bleurgh, terrible name, almost as bad as 'DAW' in the pretension stakes) stuff, especially with some judicious (ok, shitloads of) effects.

[omac]

@wagtunes - I meant to construct a good midi file that would be set up more like a guitar would play. That would allow anyone with a guitar emulation VST, sample, soundfont or whatever they had to participate. I have some good full-featured simulations that I like, but someone who might ask about guitar VSTs in general might appreciate actual examples in addition to opinions. Even participants might want to try something else that was posted. I think something like that might add more substance to help someone decide.