No they don't , seriously have a day off, talking utter ****
Tone2 I2 vs Trueno Analog
-
- KVRAF
- 35410 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
-
- KVRAF
- 4961 posts since 26 Apr, 2007 from Noosphere
Read the following post (put the glasses too)
-
- KVRAF
- 11156 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales
No, but the Truendo it is a hardware dongles, you can only run one instance and does introduce significant latency.
Personally Never had any problems with Tone2 copy protection, I find them friendly responsive developers who make great synths.
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!
-
- GRRRRRRR!
- 15940 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle
Trueno does not introduce "significant latency" at all. It is every bit as playable as any VSTi or hardware synth.
Really? When did $199 become the same as $99? Even if you can't get a deal, Trueno is still only $149 at full price. One of the really good things about hardware is you can always get a deal.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.
-
Distorted Horizon Distorted Horizon https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=392076 - Banned
- 3882 posts since 17 Jan, 2017 from Planet of cats
-
- KVRAF
- 11156 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales
Sub 10ms? Anything over 25ms I consider significant (but not always unusable)
I Use quite a bit of elektron gear with overbridge, it’s playable but the latency is quite high.
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!
-
- KVRAF
- 12555 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
The video game console for kids with a cardboard box instead of a TV: Pretendo 64!
"Imma be Mario and ur my little brother so you hafta be Luigi!"
"No way! Luigi suckssssssssssss! I'm Ash Ketchum!"
"*sigh* ... fine."
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
-
- KVRAF
- 12555 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
Actually to get a clear impression you need to record the signal as floating point and then convert it to a continuous line by measuring the peak over a time window (such as 5 ms, playing a 1 KHz sine = 1 ms per cycle), then take that perfect piecewise sampled curve and convert it to a decibel range after you approximate the cutoff/silence point. For example given -80 dB cutoff, you'd convert to a range like -90 dB to -0 dB.
This correct procedure will produce a perfectly straight line (for an exponential decay like a capacitor) leading from 0 dB to the cutoff point, where you'll clearly see the abrupt end where it jumps to zero.
For example, decay to -90 dB:
Linearized (in deciBels):
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
-
- KVRAF
- 12555 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
Send the .flac (for integer resolution, 16 bit = ~96 dB and 24 bit = ~144 dB) or a 7zip compressed floating point RIFF wave (.wav) file for max resolution.
I can process it from that point. Just make sure you record several seconds after you think the fade has ended... it's easier if you use a volume meter in decibels so you can see the fade. A proper exponential decay will look linear on a meter in decibels. You can possibly use the meters in your host for this by setting them to a proper depth (like -100 dB floor, -20 dB ticks) and observe where the envelope ends.
In Xhip I use -80 dB and other synthesizers I've used similar values. In a true analog synth there is a similar "sudden cut" to the envelopes and anyone who tells you otherwise is full of shit. The VCA is rarely perfectly linear (the diode curve exponential applies) nor are the buffers used to provide the envelope signal. This is why you'll often see full on high quality opamps used for envelopes in modulars and synthesizers... because without them it isn't possible for the envelope to be buffered fully... it needs to be able to "decay to negative" because cutting the envelope at zero volts would create the sudden cuts.
The typical OTAs used (ca3080, lm13xxx) aren't very linear below -80 dB though anyway, so it's a moot point to fuss over getting anything better.
In software you need a definite "end" for a voice to be able to stop processing it. Unlike in full analogs we can't run 100% of the voices 100% of the time... or the CPU use would be ridiculous. So we define "-80 dB is OFF" and kill all processing for the voice at that point. Otherwise there is no practical way you'd be able to run all the poly synths you run at the same time, you'd have 1000s of voices which no existing consumer CPU could ever manage.
Maybe in some more years with centa-core processors or something, but at the moment eight cores just isn't enough. I had hoped the GPU supercomputer chips would be designed in a way that would facilitate using them for DSP processing, but sadly most useful DSP is extremely linear and requires sequential rather than parallel processing.
I can process it from that point. Just make sure you record several seconds after you think the fade has ended... it's easier if you use a volume meter in decibels so you can see the fade. A proper exponential decay will look linear on a meter in decibels. You can possibly use the meters in your host for this by setting them to a proper depth (like -100 dB floor, -20 dB ticks) and observe where the envelope ends.
In Xhip I use -80 dB and other synthesizers I've used similar values. In a true analog synth there is a similar "sudden cut" to the envelopes and anyone who tells you otherwise is full of shit. The VCA is rarely perfectly linear (the diode curve exponential applies) nor are the buffers used to provide the envelope signal. This is why you'll often see full on high quality opamps used for envelopes in modulars and synthesizers... because without them it isn't possible for the envelope to be buffered fully... it needs to be able to "decay to negative" because cutting the envelope at zero volts would create the sudden cuts.
The typical OTAs used (ca3080, lm13xxx) aren't very linear below -80 dB though anyway, so it's a moot point to fuss over getting anything better.
In software you need a definite "end" for a voice to be able to stop processing it. Unlike in full analogs we can't run 100% of the voices 100% of the time... or the CPU use would be ridiculous. So we define "-80 dB is OFF" and kill all processing for the voice at that point. Otherwise there is no practical way you'd be able to run all the poly synths you run at the same time, you'd have 1000s of voices which no existing consumer CPU could ever manage.
Maybe in some more years with centa-core processors or something, but at the moment eight cores just isn't enough. I had hoped the GPU supercomputer chips would be designed in a way that would facilitate using them for DSP processing, but sadly most useful DSP is extremely linear and requires sequential rather than parallel processing.
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
-
- KVRAF
- 12555 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
With very low latency and extensive feature sets in GPU cores, it may one day be possible to process a whole synth voice on a single core and then add minimal latency to mix them all together.
That's sort-of almost kinda possible today, but the latency is huge since 60 FPS = 16.666 ms, which is already considered way too high. So doing processing on most GPUs where you need to buffer into a texture or whatever then mix (compute the sum of a region of the texture using a filter kernel) gives you latency in multiples of some fairly high number of ms like 8 or 16...
The efficiency of these chips for processing the graphical tasks they were designed to handle optimally is contrary to minimal latency "real time" DSP... but I'm still hoping we'll get there eventually!
That's sort-of almost kinda possible today, but the latency is huge since 60 FPS = 16.666 ms, which is already considered way too high. So doing processing on most GPUs where you need to buffer into a texture or whatever then mix (compute the sum of a region of the texture using a filter kernel) gives you latency in multiples of some fairly high number of ms like 8 or 16...
The efficiency of these chips for processing the graphical tasks they were designed to handle optimally is contrary to minimal latency "real time" DSP... but I'm still hoping we'll get there eventually!
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
-
- GRRRRRRR!
- 15940 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle
No idea, really, I just play it from my Seaboard Block and it works. Given that 25ms in not unheard of in hardware, it's really not significant.
Which should tell you that looking at latency values doesn't matter. People obsess over it but, unless there is a problem, I just use whatever the default set-up is for whichever device I am using.I Use quite a bit of elektron gear with overbridge, it’s playable but the latency is quite high.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.
