Fathom Synth New Sound Bank Purple Mist

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Burillo
KVRAF
3639 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell

Post Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:46 am

well, there are three different frequency tiers - non-AVX, AVX2 and AVX512. AVX2 has existed for a while now and the frequency tiering hasn't changed and isn't looking to be changing in future archs either (at least they haven't published anything to indicate otherwise, all the recent *Lakes appear to have this issue), so i would actually expect to be stuck with AVX-512 throttling for a good while. if anything, i would rather expect AMD to show Intel how it's done when they get around to implementing AVX-512 :D
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FathomSynth
KVRian
1199 posts since 25 Mar, 2017 from Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Fathom Synth New Intel AVX Parallel Processor

Post Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:56 am

The Dangers of AVX-512 Throttling: Myth or Reality?
https://lemire.me/blog/2018/08/13/the-d ... r-reality/

"As you can see, the AVX-512 version is always faster. Otherwise, I see no negative effect from the application of AVX-512. If there is throttling, it appears that the benefits of AVX-512 offset it."

The Dangers of AVX-512 Throttling: a 3% Impact
https://lemire.me/blog/2018/08/15/the-d ... -3-impact/

"Thus AVX-512 incurs a 3-4% penalty. I can’t measure a difference between light and heavy AVX-512 instructions."

"Is that a lot? It is hard for me to get terribly depressed at the fact that a benchmark I specifically designed to make AVX-512 look bad sees a 3% performance degradation on one core. Real code is not going to use AVX-512 in such a manner: the AVX-512 instructions will do useful work. It is not super difficult to recoup a 3% difference."

So according to this guys research the throttling issue you are talking about is indeed real, however it seems to be limited only to the core running the AVX-512 instructions and the frequency throttling is around 3% while the functional multiply factor is close to 16 times which is 1600%.

Most (good) DAW's (like Ableton) are smart enough to allocate plugin tracks to processor cores. So if you were running Fathom in such a DAW and it was on it's own core then the throttling would be limited to that core, or limited to Fathom, not the core running the DAW GUI, other tracks or cores being used by applications on your machine outside the DAW.

That being said, I am glad you mentioned it, since I was not aware of the issue, and it is something I will test for before releasing the 512 version.

EDIT: I also found some other articles with tests that seem to indicate the frequency throttling impacts all cores! And that it lowered a 3.2 GHz CPU to 1.8 GHz! So that would be bad. Bottom line is I will have to test this thoroughly.

Also, I am planning on making the enable of AVX a setting, so the user is not going to be stuck with it unless they want it.

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TrojakEW
KVRist
308 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from Slovakia

Re: Fathom Synth New Intel AVX Parallel Processor

Post Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:46 am

So I have some "minutes" to play more with Fathom again. I made few presets in process so if there will be interest I can send them to Everett but will need to export them from project and do some clean up.

I always trying to do kind of organic sounding presets. I do not trying to create realistic sounding one but instead I'm just borrowing behavior of real instruments and trying to use them on synth sounds. This test is no exception.

This is not track for normal listening just test of those sounds and also to show that Fathom can sounds nice. I know there is a lot of examples of Fathom sounds but not sure if there is any that use just Fathom and nothing else. So there are no external effects used here. Every sound is just pure Fathom Synth. Only limiter on master to avoid some occasional clipping. Track is divided in 5 parts. I post also screen of project from FL Studio to show those tracks piano roll and automation used.
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1. 0:00 - 0:39 - Two instances of Fathom. 1st Hybrid piano that sound something like blend between piano, guitar, synth pluck and bass, Simulated dynamics on note velocity. Strings that have assigned modwheel to adjust simulated dynamics.

2.0:39 - 1:05 - One instance of Fathom. Plucked synth with sustain. Dynamics mod with note velocity.

3.1:05 - 2:07 - Four instances of Fathom. Same Strings patch as in first part. Next are 3 instances layered as one multi instrument. Staccato Brass dynamics based on note velocity. Sustain Brass dynamics based on note velocity and also modwheel and same Strings preset as above mod with MW.

4.2:07 -2:55 - Five instances of Fathom. CyneToms with dynamics based on note velocity, again same Strings preset (MW) and same multi Brass, Brass, Strings preset.

5.2:55 - 3:42 - 12 instances of Fathom. Kick, Snare, Hihat, Crash cymbal, Bass, Solo Cello, Impulse Pluck, Hybrid Piano, CyneToms and again same multi Brass, Brass, Strings all together.

https://soundcloud.com/trojakew/sounds- ... test-naked

This test also shows that we (I) need additional features to apply those real world behavior more precise. First is possibility to apply mod to envelope time especially attack time. I didn't find the way how to to this so not sure if it even possible in this version. Next is custom curve for Note velocity and for midi controller assigned (like modwheel). This will be very useful for multilayered sound when you need to create custom dynamic curve for those different layers.

Also some way to export and import part of preset/schematic. This way we can built some prefabs stuff that we use often and we will be able to merge some presets together to create single multi preset. As one I used in this example. Instead of 3 instances I would like to have just one. I'm lazy to rebuilt it together as one. It is setup up to play only strings and sustain brass on low note velocity while adding some bite on higher note velocity with staccato brass. I can imagine to build similar multi instruments in Fathom like those in Project Sam Symphobia series but synth based sounding. :P

Also regarding bug with envelope. It behave strange. In sustain phase it add something to sound. Sometimes it works as it should and sometimes not. I have to explore more what cause this.
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Sinthoid
KVRist
33 posts since 6 Sep, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth New Intel AVX Parallel Processor

Post Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:44 pm

Mod amount can indeed be modulated, double click on the amount knob and click "add mod" like you would for any parameter. This is explained in more detail in the manual.

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TrojakEW
KVRist
308 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from Slovakia

Re: Fathom Synth New Intel AVX Parallel Processor

Post Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:46 pm

Sinthoid wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:44 pm
Mod amount can indeed be modulated, double click on the amount knob and click "add mod" like you would for any parameter. This is explained in more detail in the manual.
I'm not talking about mod amount of envelope. I was talking about envelope attack time and this is different thing.
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AnX
KVRAF
5066 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: Fathom Synth New Intel AVX Parallel Processor

Post Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:55 pm

modulating the env attack knob?

is that not a destination?

FathomSynth
KVRian
1199 posts since 25 Mar, 2017 from Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Fathom Synth New Intel AVX Parallel Processor

Post Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:50 pm

Trojak, Very cool song, very dark and ominous. I like the last part the best.
Are those drums really all Fathom? If so, that's impressive, they sound pretty good.

No sorry, currently you can't modulate envelope segment lengths.
That's one of the things that got pushed back until the CPU performance work is done.

Sinthoid
KVRist
33 posts since 6 Sep, 2017

Re: Fathom Synth New Intel AVX Parallel Processor

Post Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:02 pm

Sorry, I misread what you were trying to do. I checked the manual, and if you use the Easy ADSR you can modulate the attack time on that.

FathomSynth
KVRian
1199 posts since 25 Mar, 2017 from Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Fathom Synth New Intel AVX Parallel Processor

Post Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:33 pm

I hate to admit it, but if it seems to allow that, I don't think the attack time will actually change.

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AmbieticA
KVRist
50 posts since 8 Mar, 2019

Re: Fathom Synth Thread

Post Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:57 pm

FathomSynth wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:51 pm
Fathom Test Results Intel AVX Parallel Processing

Image
:o :o :o

That's a lot of "wiggle room", mildly putting it. That is impressive, and brings Fathom way up to a whole new level. It's great to come back after a short lived synth hiatus and THIS is the first thing you see. Summers here. I'm always "out" exploring the landscape. I haven't been in the studio for a couple of weeks. Chasing waterfalls, and absorbing terrain carved sunsets that lead into valley filled dusk beams. I launched Fathom after a brief hiatus, and soon after, the carved sunsets came to life through my ears. Fathom never disappoints. ...A retro FM after taste combined with an additive pluck, and a delicate touch of subtractive spice to see if I lost any "chops". Still not modulated, an unfinished draft in the early stages, but something to play with :) Time to delve, and with this AVX news ...Time to delve deeply.
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Ambient Sound Design & Soundtrack Composition - http://ambietica.lyonsdenmultimedia.com/

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AmbieticA
KVRist
50 posts since 8 Mar, 2019

Re: Fathom Synth New Intel AVX Parallel Processor

Post Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:49 am

TrojakEW wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:46 am
12 instances of Fathom. Kick, Snare, Hihat, Crash cymbal, Bass, Solo Cello, Impulse Pluck, Hybrid Piano, CyneToms and again same multi Brass, Brass, Strings all together.

https://soundcloud.com/trojakew/sounds- ... test-naked
TrojakEW That was super cool! I haven't tried to get traditional instrument out of Fathom yet because my head floats in the clouds LoL! Thanks for sharing that! :D
Ambient Sound Design & Soundtrack Composition - http://ambietica.lyonsdenmultimedia.com/

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TrojakEW
KVRist
308 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from Slovakia

Re: Fathom Synth New Intel AVX Parallel Processor

Post Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:20 am

FathomSynth wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:50 pm
Trojak, Very cool song, very dark and ominous. I like the last part the best. Are those drums really all Fathom? If so, that's impressive, they sound pretty good.
Yup everything is Fathom. But truth is Fathom can make it better. I need to work more on them in free time.
FathomSynth wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:50 pm
No sorry, currently you can't modulate envelope segment lengths. That's one of the things that got pushed back until the CPU performance work is done.
No problem. There is still too much for learn and to explore in this synth. Once you have time it will be nice feature to implement. And yes CPU performance should be priority.
AmbieticA wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:49 am
TrojakEW That was super cool! I haven't tried to get traditional instrument out of Fathom yet because my head floats in the clouds LoL! Thanks for sharing that! :D
Thanks. I will do more work on them and will send those presets to Everett so everyone can use them. Want to first combine that trio Brass - Brass - Strings in to one patch as it was mean to be like this. So users can just have almost full orch section (without winds for now) in one single patch.
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User avatar
AmbieticA
KVRist
50 posts since 8 Mar, 2019

Re: Fathom Synth New Intel AVX Parallel Processor

Post Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:57 pm

AmbieticA wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:49 am
Thanks. I will do more work on them and will send those presets to Everett so everyone can use them. Want to first combine that trio Brass - Brass - Strings in to one patch as it was mean to be like this. So users can just have almost full orch section (without winds for now) in one single patch.
So like a Brass/String section mod wheel type of morph? Looking forward to playing with that patch! What an awesome concept :D
Ambient Sound Design & Soundtrack Composition - http://ambietica.lyonsdenmultimedia.com/

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] Peter:H [
KVRian
799 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Re: Fathom Synth New Intel AVX Parallel Processor

Post Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:18 am

AmbieticA wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:57 pm
AmbieticA wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:49 am
Thanks. I will do more work on them and will send those presets to Everett so everyone can use them. Want to first combine that trio Brass - Brass - Strings in to one patch as it was mean to be like this. So users can just have almost full orch section (without winds for now) in one single patch.
So like a Brass/String section mod wheel type of morph? Looking forward to playing with that patch! What an awesome concept :D
Probably this could be a spectral morph? Examples could be Meldas MMorph or to some extent the idea of the "spectral filter" in Thorn...

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TrojakEW
KVRist
308 posts since 21 Mar, 2012 from Slovakia

Re: Fathom Synth New Intel AVX Parallel Processor

Post Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:21 pm

AmbieticA wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:57 pm
So like a Brass/String section mod wheel type of morph? Looking forward to playing with that patch! What an awesome concept :D
Idea is to layer three different sounds adn trigger them based on different behaviour. Some part of sound are based on note velocity while others are linked to modwheel. But I hit the limit here. Look like Fathom handle those 3 layers better in separate instances then in one. The multi layer preset become CPU torture. Like one note hit is about 50% CPU use. Simple 3 note chord kill CPU. Also missing that custom curve for note velocity and other midi cc controler. While trying to find other way I found I can't modulate modulation. So it will be good idea to add this to Fathom too. Like when you add mod to osc amp for example ADSR easy and then you add mod to this modulator. Then I was trying to add mod to this additional modulator but it isn't possible 8) . Yea I make things complicated.

But still I will include this mulit 3 in one test in this collection. I made another multi with just two layers. I also made some additional different version of strings. One totally based on note velocity with short attack that is good for staccato part and one kind of ositnato string (named Action Strings).
] Peter:H [ wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:18 am
Probably this could be a spectral morph? Examples could be Meldas MMorph or to some extent the idea of the "spectral filter" in Thorn...
Do you have access to new features that we others don't have :hihi: No matter what I do I will not able to simulate this :lol: :lol:
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