SoundMorph: Dust, granular flow motion

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
nichttuntun
KVRian
756 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Post Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:57 am

Cinebient wrote:Another one. First you hear the sample i used and then 2 mainly the same presets (4 emitters here) but with different flow field algorithms (you also can enter your own).
I just wish Dust wouldn´t be so damn buggy and unstable and sometimes it´s hard to get not out of control.
I bought it at intro price so it was a good deal for me so far. I just wish some other developers would take such a tool to perfection.
https://soundcloud.com/user-790535032/dust-textures-2
Hi,
thank you very much for your sound examples. I like them both although I got the feeling that they really sound a bit thin. I can describe it best when I imagine a bit-reduced digital sound. Maybe it is the character of DUST?
Cheers


@Caine123:
Yes, Steinberg hasn´t got the best support-service program out there. But I use Cubase since 1993 and I never really had any massive problems with their software.

Cinebient
KVRAF
4220 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: SoundMorph: Dust, granular flow motion

Post Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:17 am

nichttuntun wrote:
Cinebient wrote:Another one. First you hear the sample i used and then 2 mainly the same presets (4 emitters here) but with different flow field algorithms (you also can enter your own).
I just wish Dust wouldn´t be so damn buggy and unstable and sometimes it´s hard to get not out of control.
I bought it at intro price so it was a good deal for me so far. I just wish some other developers would take such a tool to perfection.
https://soundcloud.com/user-790535032/dust-textures-2
Hi,
thank you very much for your sound examples. I like them both although I got the feeling that they really sound a bit thin. I can describe it best when I imagine a bit-reduced digital sound. Maybe it is the character of DUST?
Cheers


@Caine123:
Yes, Steinberg hasn´t got the best support-service program out there. But I use Cubase since 1993 and I never really had any massive problems with their software.
Thx.
You are right. Dust might introduce a kind of Lo-Fi to it but i think that it it´s nature. Also there are often these tiny artefacts and metallic shimmer but i even like to use that since it´s kind of part of many granular tools anyway. But you can filter these out and a bit of saturation can help too to get it thicker again. I also used the convolver (used the sound source as source here too) and turned the dry output a bit low here.
Here is another example of what i like to do with Dust. First again the sample source i used, then mangling it with Dust. I just used one emitter here. I have choosen one default flow field algorithm and added just 2 modulations to it on top. I set it up again with midi pitch chromatic as input and played a few random chords. On top i enabled a slightly modulation for pitch to the age of the particles.
You also can do a lot more like modulation the pitch per particles via how far they away from an X or Y axis, how fast they go trough the flow field and more. It´s like you can have several 100´s of different envelopes or even MSEG´s for one parameter like pitch f.e.
Again a very simple set-up with just a fraction of what Dust can do (in theory):
https://soundcloud.com/user-790535032/dust-meets-p900

nichttuntun
KVRian
756 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Re: SoundMorph: Dust, granular flow motion

Post Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:39 am

Cinebient wrote:
nichttuntun wrote:
Cinebient wrote: Thx.
You are right. Dust might introduce a kind of Lo-Fi to it but i think that it it´s nature. Also there are often these tiny artefacts and metallic shimmer but i even like to use that since it´s kind of part of many granular tools anyway. But you can filter these out and a bit of saturation can help too to get it thicker again. I also used the convolver (used the sound source as source here too) and turned the dry output a bit low here.
Here is another example of what i like to do with Dust. First again the sample source i used, then mangling it with Dust. I just used one emitter here. I have choosen one default flow field algorithm and added just 2 modulations to it on top. I set it up again with midi pitch chromatic as input and played a few random chords. On top i enabled a slightly modulation for pitch to the age of the particles.
You also can do a lot more like modulation the pitch per particles via how far they away from an X or Y axis, how fast they go trough the flow field and more. It´s like you can have several 100´s of different envelopes or even MSEG´s for one parameter like pitch f.e.
Again a very simple set-up with just a fraction of what Dust can do (in theory):
https://soundcloud.com/user-790535032/dust-meets-p900

Hi.
I like this example very much. Correct, the thin and metallic low-fi character is a part of granular synthesis in general. But I think this could be improved in general but with a really good sound quality and a really good filter emulation the granulator would probably eat a CPU for lunch.

I still have some questions for DUST because I really like what it can do:

- I have no experience with Soundmorph and is there a chance that they make DUST a final and stable version?
- When I like to play cromatically with a keyboard, can I play DUST like a real instrument or sample player? I mean if I stop playing via Keyboard is DUST stopping too? Is DUST playing endlessly?
- Can you make a Pad-Sound, with a long evolving attack and a long release which is always triggered new that way when a new Key is pressed?
- Can every emitter of DUST be triggered seperately by the Keyboard or is the output always the sum of all active emitters?
- Is DUST working problem-free with CUBASE on a 64bit PC-System?
- Is DUST saving all the Sample pathes and edits within a Cubase Project?

Sorry for that many questions but this are important points for me and I will make a buying decicion dependent on them.

Last of all:
I heard rumors of GLITCHMACHINES making a new flag-ship plugin this year and it would be something with granular-synthesis. Maybe we should first wait for that outcome. Does someone know more?

Cheers

Cinebient
KVRAF
4220 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: SoundMorph: Dust, granular flow motion

Post Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:05 am

nichttuntun wrote:
Cinebient wrote:
nichttuntun wrote:
Cinebient wrote: Thx.
You are right. Dust might introduce a kind of Lo-Fi to it but i think that it it´s nature. Also there are often these tiny artefacts and metallic shimmer but i even like to use that since it´s kind of part of many granular tools anyway. But you can filter these out and a bit of saturation can help too to get it thicker again. I also used the convolver (used the sound source as source here too) and turned the dry output a bit low here.
Here is another example of what i like to do with Dust. First again the sample source i used, then mangling it with Dust. I just used one emitter here. I have choosen one default flow field algorithm and added just 2 modulations to it on top. I set it up again with midi pitch chromatic as input and played a few random chords. On top i enabled a slightly modulation for pitch to the age of the particles.
You also can do a lot more like modulation the pitch per particles via how far they away from an X or Y axis, how fast they go trough the flow field and more. It´s like you can have several 100´s of different envelopes or even MSEG´s for one parameter like pitch f.e.
Again a very simple set-up with just a fraction of what Dust can do (in theory):
https://soundcloud.com/user-790535032/dust-meets-p900

Hi.
I like this example very much. Correct, the thin and metallic low-fi character is a part of granular synthesis in general. But I think this could be improved in general but with a really good sound quality and a really good filter emulation the granulator would probably eat a CPU for lunch.

I still have some questions for DUST because I really like what it can do:

- I have no experience with Soundmorph and is there a chance that they make DUST a final and stable version?
- When I like to play cromatically with a keyboard, can I play DUST like a real instrument or sample player? I mean if I stop playing via Keyboard is DUST stopping too? Is DUST playing endlessly?
- Can you make a Pad-Sound, with a long evolving attack and a long release which is always triggered new that way when a new Key is pressed?
- Can every emitter of DUST be triggered seperately by the Keyboard or is the output always the sum of all active emitters?
- Is DUST working problem-free with CUBASE on a 64bit PC-System?
- Is DUST saving all the Sample pathes and edits within a Cubase Project?

Sorry for that many questions but this are important points for me and I will make a buying decicion dependent on them.

Last of all:
I heard rumors of GLITCHMACHINES making a new flag-ship plugin this year and it would be something with granular-synthesis. Maybe we should first wait for that outcome. Does someone know more?

Cheers
I cannot answer all your questions but i will try.
Dust is still a bit buggy and i´m not sure if things ever get solved.
Dust has a (simple) ASD envelope, yes, no release just up to 10 seconds decay, (where you again can modulate the A, S and D per particles). An particle is in case of if you set it up to chromatic pitch mode one per key press indeed. The envelope can be set up from zero to 10 seconds (all parts of it).
You also can set it to trigger by a sequencer or some other options but i prefer live midi input like i would trigger a normal synth.
This way you can play chords, pads whatever in tune (tuning a sample is another thing here) if you like like you would play a "normal" synth.
It´s not so easy to set up at the beginning because in theory you can have another value for each key/note you press for any of the parameters you can modulate per particle which are all parts of the envelopes, filter cutoff and resonance, volume, position in the sample, interval and length of the particles as well as pitch. And here you have several options of course too. And all that can be set up seperate per emitter (remember you have 8 of them if you want). But it will kill any CPU i think if you go wild.
Maybe you have a special sound/sample source in mind and i could try to make a preset you might like.
But i could try to come up with some very simple demos how to trigger it just as a normal synth.
However, don´t expect it to be as accurate or snappy as a normal synth or other granular synths but Dust is really something special because on top you can put or let each particle/note/trigger fly trough it´s own place in the binaural space and at the same time you can modulate where each particle is triggered. I just scratched it here all a bit and wish it was more stable and bug free and i had a much much more powerful CPU.
And indeed i would say this is best as a pad and soundscape or FX maker rather than playing bass, keys or leads (but possible too with a lot work).
I bought it for €79 at intro price and it´s one of my favorite tools to achieve unique and obscure sounds and FX. The default presets are more just FX which would fit in video games and i never use one of them really. I wish i would do make you-tube videos because it´s not only sounding great but watching the flow field forming the particles in geometric forms and morphing ionto others or whatever in real time is hypnotizing :)

nichttuntun
KVRian
756 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Re: SoundMorph: Dust, granular flow motion

Post Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:39 am

Cinebient wrote:
nichttuntun wrote:
Cinebient wrote:
nichttuntun wrote:
Cinebient wrote: I cannot answer all your questions but i will try.
Dust is still a bit buggy and i´m not sure if things ever get solved.
Dust has a (simple) ASD envelope, yes, no release just up to 10 seconds decay, (where you again can modulate the A, S and D per particles). An particle is in case of if you set it up to chromatic pitch mode one per key press indeed. The envelope can be set up from zero to 10 seconds (all parts of it).
You also can set it to trigger by a sequencer or some other options but i prefer live midi input like i would trigger a normal synth.
This way you can play chords, pads whatever in tune (tuning a sample is another thing here) if you like like you would play a "normal" synth.
It´s not so easy to set up at the beginning because in theory you can have another value for each key/note you press for any of the parameters you can modulate per particle which are all parts of the envelopes, filter cutoff and resonance, volume, position in the sample, interval and length of the particles as well as pitch. And here you have several options of course too. And all that can be set up seperate per emitter (remember you have 8 of them if you want). But it will kill any CPU i think if you go wild.
Maybe you have a special sound/sample source in mind and i could try to make a preset you might like.
But i could try to come up with some very simple demos how to trigger it just as a normal synth.
However, don´t expect it to be as accurate or snappy as a normal synth or other granular synths but Dust is really something special because on top you can put or let each particle/note/trigger fly trough it´s own place in the binaural space and at the same time you can modulate where each particle is triggered. I just scratched it here all a bit and wish it was more stable and bug free and i had a much much more powerful CPU.
And indeed i would say this is best as a pad and soundscape or FX maker rather than playing bass, keys or leads (but possible too with a lot work).
I bought it for €79 at intro price and it´s one of my favorite tools to achieve unique and obscure sounds and FX. The default presets are more just FX which would fit in video games and i never use one of them really. I wish i would do make you-tube videos because it´s not only sounding great but watching the flow field forming the particles in geometric forms and morphing ionto others or whatever in real time is hypnotizing :)

Hi and thank you very much for your indepth help. I think it could be interesting for me. But really I hear nothing, PADSHOP can´t do and beside that I listened very close on good Sennheiser HPs again and I recognized those high pitched artefacts DUST produces in higher frequencies which I find very unbeautiful. This plus the thin and lofi (bitrate-reduced) sound are not convincing me at all. In fact I don´t like the tone of it at all and in contrary PADSHOP does have a much fuller, somehow smoother and more musical sound to it and produces NO artefacts. I don´t know if DUST and I will become friends some day.

The only advantage from what I learned right now is how DUST makes its grains flying around into space. But this is not only an advantage. It may be great as a background soundscape but in a mix such wildly modulated panning efx and stereo wideners can produce heavy phase distortion and it can be far too prominent in a mix and hard to come by when many tracks are playing at the same time. I like to record in mono and do the fancy stuff afterwards in the mix, at places I really need it.

I am not convinced right now. :scared:
Cheers

Cinebient
KVRAF
4220 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: SoundMorph: Dust, granular flow motion

Post Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:23 am

nichttuntun wrote:
Cinebient wrote:
nichttuntun wrote:
Cinebient wrote:
nichttuntun wrote:
Cinebient wrote: I cannot answer all your questions but i will try.
Dust is still a bit buggy and i´m not sure if things ever get solved.
Dust has a (simple) ASD envelope, yes, no release just up to 10 seconds decay, (where you again can modulate the A, S and D per particles). An particle is in case of if you set it up to chromatic pitch mode one per key press indeed. The envelope can be set up from zero to 10 seconds (all parts of it).
You also can set it to trigger by a sequencer or some other options but i prefer live midi input like i would trigger a normal synth.
This way you can play chords, pads whatever in tune (tuning a sample is another thing here) if you like like you would play a "normal" synth.
It´s not so easy to set up at the beginning because in theory you can have another value for each key/note you press for any of the parameters you can modulate per particle which are all parts of the envelopes, filter cutoff and resonance, volume, position in the sample, interval and length of the particles as well as pitch. And here you have several options of course too. And all that can be set up seperate per emitter (remember you have 8 of them if you want). But it will kill any CPU i think if you go wild.
Maybe you have a special sound/sample source in mind and i could try to make a preset you might like.
But i could try to come up with some very simple demos how to trigger it just as a normal synth.
However, don´t expect it to be as accurate or snappy as a normal synth or other granular synths but Dust is really something special because on top you can put or let each particle/note/trigger fly trough it´s own place in the binaural space and at the same time you can modulate where each particle is triggered. I just scratched it here all a bit and wish it was more stable and bug free and i had a much much more powerful CPU.
And indeed i would say this is best as a pad and soundscape or FX maker rather than playing bass, keys or leads (but possible too with a lot work).
I bought it for €79 at intro price and it´s one of my favorite tools to achieve unique and obscure sounds and FX. The default presets are more just FX which would fit in video games and i never use one of them really. I wish i would do make you-tube videos because it´s not only sounding great but watching the flow field forming the particles in geometric forms and morphing ionto others or whatever in real time is hypnotizing :)

Hi and thank you very much for your indepth help. I think it could be interesting for me. But really I hear nothing, PADSHOP can´t do and beside that I listened very close on good Sennheiser HPs again and I recognized those high pitched artefacts DUST produces in higher frequencies which I find very unbeautiful. This plus the thin and lofi (bitrate-reduced) sound are not convincing me at all. In fact I don´t like the tone of it at all and in contrary PADSHOP does have a much fuller, somehow smoother and more musical sound to it and produces NO artefacts. I don´t know if DUST and I will become friends some day.

The only advantage from what I learned right now is how DUST makes its grains flying around into space. But this is not only an advantage. It may be great as a background soundscape but in a mix such wildly modulated panning efx and stereo wideners can produce heavy phase distortion and it can be far too prominent in a mix and hard to come by when many tracks are playing at the same time. I like to record in mono and do the fancy stuff afterwards in the mix, at places I really need it.

I am not convinced right now. :scared:
Cheers
Then maybe don´t buy it yet. Is there no demo to test....still?
I wouldn´t recommend to buy it anyway without a demo. It´s a very special tools and might be gold or shit depending on what you like to do.
I doesn´t used Padshop so i can´t comment on it. I just have granular tools in Alchemy, The Mangle, Falcon and some other things on mac and iOS but Dust is my favorite here.
I would pay for that flow field and modulation per particle alone as FX plug-in without the granular engine and other things on top. Sadly the FX version from Dust is still not usable for me.
Whatever, as long as you enjoy what you do!
Cheers!

Neon Breath
KVRAF
3334 posts since 15 Sep, 2010

Re: SoundMorph: Dust, granular flow motion

Post Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:29 am

Cinebient wrote:ybe don´t buy it yet. Is there no demo to test....still?
I wouldn´t recommend to buy it anyway without a demo. It´s a very special tools and might be gold or shit depending on what you like to do.

Cheers!
That sums it all.

Dust is really a love / hate relationship. You either love it because it's unique and widely creative, no doubts there. Or you hate it because it's buggy, weird and support is very poor. Or you might feel even both to complicate the whole thing.
__________________________________________________
http://redfog-drone.bandcamp.com
http://soundcloud.com/sleeping-on-lotus-ashes
__________________________________________________

Cinebient
KVRAF
4220 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: SoundMorph: Dust, granular flow motion

Post Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:15 pm

And while i´m bored here another variation of a drone/soundscape i like to do with Dust.
Again the sample used at the beginning and then a random live play with 1 emitter:
https://soundcloud.com/user-790535032/dust-meets-p900-2

nichttuntun
KVRian
756 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Re: SoundMorph: Dust, granular flow motion

Post Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:43 am

Cinebient wrote:And while i´m bored here another variation of a drone/soundscape i like to do with Dust.
Again the sample used at the beginning and then a random live play with 1 emitter:
https://soundcloud.com/user-790535032/dust-meets-p900-2
I appreciate your kind support of your examples. Thanks a lot. Cheers :)

nichttuntun
KVRian
756 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Re: SoundMorph: Dust, granular flow motion

Post Wed May 02, 2018 9:54 am

Couldn't stand the anniversary offer and bought it today. Can try it out next week intensively. :party:

Neon Breath
KVRAF
3334 posts since 15 Sep, 2010

Re: SoundMorph: Dust, granular flow motion

Post Wed May 02, 2018 10:29 am

nichttuntun wrote:Couldn't stand the anniversary offer and bought it today. Can try it out next week intensively. :party:
If you don't have great expectations for support and updates, you'll have lot of fun with SoundMorph. Despite its issues and problems, it's a unique and great creative tool.
__________________________________________________
http://redfog-drone.bandcamp.com
http://soundcloud.com/sleeping-on-lotus-ashes
__________________________________________________

nichttuntun
KVRian
756 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Re: SoundMorph: Dust, granular flow motion

Post Wed May 02, 2018 3:24 pm

That's cool and I am looking forward to try it out. Although I already own Glitchmachines PALINDROME since release and I think this VST is really great and DUST will have a hard time to beat it. No serious I do hope DUST is equally great for creative purpose but I also hope it has completely different sound mechanics.

User avatar
zerocrossing
KVRAF
9780 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: SoundMorph: Dust, granular flow motion

Post Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:57 am

So, it’s been a little while... what’s the verdict? Safe to buy if you’re a Bitwig user? I don’t care about audio input. Should I just get PALINDROME instead?
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

nichttuntun
KVRian
756 posts since 22 Nov, 2017

Re: SoundMorph: Dust, granular flow motion

Post Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:35 am

zerocrossing wrote:So, it’s been a little while... what’s the verdict? Safe to buy if you’re a Bitwig user? I don’t care about audio input. Should I just get PALINDROME instead?
The verdict for DUST is that I think it´s a fantastic sound-design tool which provides lots of fun but that it feels a bit unfinished. It could have had so much more possibilities but it seems the devs closed it down before finishing it. But it´s great for what it is. I used my own samples and had lots of fun with it and it surprised me a little in a positive way. I realy wanted to do some more stuff with it but the simplest things like playing a sample backwards isn´t implemented. I use Cubase and cannot say anything about Bitwig.

PALINDROME is a totally different approach and I like it much. It´s like a musique concrete machine ;) It feels absolutely stabe and is well thought out. And as I know the Glitchmachines products (I own all of them) I am sure there are more features to come in the future. Regarding the long term concerning these special kinds of creative plugins I always would stick with Ivos (GM) products. It feels save :tu:

User avatar
zerocrossing
KVRAF
9780 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: SoundMorph: Dust, granular flow motion

Post Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:04 pm

nichttuntun wrote:
zerocrossing wrote:So, it’s been a little while... what’s the verdict? Safe to buy if you’re a Bitwig user? I don’t care about audio input. Should I just get PALINDROME instead?
The verdict for DUST is that I think it´s a fantastic sound-design tool which provides lots of fun but that it feels a bit unfinished. It could have had so much more possibilities but it seems the devs closed it down before finishing it. But it´s great for what it is. I used my own samples and had lots of fun with it and it surprised me a little in a positive way. I realy wanted to do some more stuff with it but the simplest things like playing a sample backwards isn´t implemented. I use Cubase and cannot say anything about Bitwig.

PALINDROME is a totally different approach and I like it much. It´s like a musique concrete machine ;) It feels absolutely stabe and is well thought out. And as I know the Glitchmachines products (I own all of them) I am sure there are more features to come in the future. Regarding the long term concerning these special kinds of creative plugins I always would stick with Ivos (GM) products. It feels save :tu:
Yeah, I only own Polygon. I do like it a lot, but I probably should have a few more by them. One thing I love about Dust is the UI. It’s mesmerizing.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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