KVR Audio

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:48 am

Yesterday i again checked some of the Acoustic Pianos i got here like those in NI Komplete 10, True Pianos, Arturia Piano V and Garritan Steinway Model D (Standard version, plugin discontinued).

At the moment my favorite from those is NI The Grandeur, combined with a few external FXs (e.g. Lexicon MPX Native Reverb, NI Replika and others).

Normally i use this with the Komplete Kontrol plugin and my NI Komplete Kontrol S61 controller which offers 30+ parameters for tweaking from the controller and also browsing trough patches. Not actually focused on playing Piano so using a 88 key controller with hammer mechanics mostly makes no real sense for me (for synths this does not really seem to work properly, at least for me).

K-Bee · Post by **K-Bee** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:03 am

Like pretty much all other pianos, the mid register is thin and sounds flat to me. It may be a question of proper EQ settings but I never managed to get it right. I have Komplete 10 Ultimate and the problem remains no matter what piano you choose. I'll go as far as saying that the piano on my old Roland A-90 sounds better that most plugins.
Here's hoping that the forthcoming Spectrasonics will change that

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:07 am

Based on the fact that i had paid 99 € for the Upgrade from Komplete 6 to Komplete 10 and the amount of new products added by that upgrade the price for The Grandeur and the other pianos included there was a real steal.
Most virtual Pianos do cost the same or much more than thd 99 € i paid for that upgrade.

The sound of The Grandeur could be easily adjusted with the "Tone" control and the built-in EQ (those are also available as parameters when used with the NKS implementation and the Komplete Kontrol hardware controller).

There are maybe better PIanos than those in Komplete 10 or True Pianos that i got too (since quite long time) but at the moment i would not liek to spnd much more money on this, also as i am not really focused on playing Piano but more on synths. For my needs the NI pianos in Komplet 10 and in True Pianos are good enough at the moment, especially when used in a mix.
Not sure about Arturia Piano V (from V-Collection 5) yet but it has some usuable sounds too (and some unique ones too) within it's 9 piano models while it is fully modeled without any samples.

UPDATE:
I just tested the demo of teh XLN Studio Grand but prefer the sound of The Graneur in comparison. Even with the tweaking options in the Studio Grand demo i was not able to come somewhere close to the sound of The Grandeur. Anyway the XLN CP-80 could be maybe intereresting.

K-Bee · Post by **K-Bee** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:03 pm

Ingonator wrote:Not sure about Arturia Piano V (from V-Collection 5) yet but it has some usuable sounds too (and some unique ones too) within it's 9 piano models while it is fully modeled without any samples.

I bought the Arturia V5 collection a few weeks ago and never even noticed that piano plugin....D'oh

I'll check it out. Been way too busy with the Synclavier!
My music is usually rhodes/piano/FM rhodes driven and I use a fair bit of clavinet stuff too. Keyscape is sort of a nor brainer for me. The piano market is over saturated to say the least but if anyone can be game changer within this field, it's Spectrasonics.

Would you considor The Grandeur as the best piano in K10 when configured correctly? I find Alicia's Keys more playable out of the box with no tweaking, but I'd be happy to know whether I'm wrong

Oh, btw...congratulations on your 10001 posts - quite a bunch

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:11 pm

K-Bee wrote: Would you considor The Grandeur as the best piano in K10 when configured correctly? I find Alicia's Keys more playable out of the box with no tweaking, but I'd be happy to know whether I'm wrong

Well i got the standard version of Komplete 10 so no Alicia's Keys included while i would be really interested in it. Upgrading to Komplete 11 Ultimate just for this would be kind of an "overkill" while as a single plugin Alcicia's Keys would cost 99 €.
With the upgrade to Komplete 11 i could get the Una Corda Piano but not sure if the upgrade would be worth it for that.

The Grandeur (and the otehr NI Pianos in Komplete 10 too) offers some tweaking of the basic sound so you could get quite a diffrent sound with just small tweaks on the corresponding parameters. Also using cerrtain external FXs could make a difference.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:25 pm

I prefer The Maverick, but as mentioned honestly all of these pianos DO need EQ. I don't know why they are recorded with so little mids. Once EQed (heavily), they sound absolutely awesome. The Giant is my least favourite, I can't get any EQ curves to fix that one.

In terms of tone, the Alicia Keys piano has it right out of the box imho but that's only part of Ultimate.

K-Bee · Post by **K-Bee** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:36 pm

On with the tweaking then...thanks

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:44 pm

fgimian wrote:I prefer The Maverick, but as mentioned honestly all of these pianos DO need EQ. I don't know why they are recorded with so little mids. Once EQed (heavily), they sound absolutely awesome. The Giant is my least favourite, I can't get any EQ curves to fix that one.

In terms of tone, the Alicia Keys piano has it right out of the box imho but that's only part of Ultimate.

The Grandeur offfers quite a bit of tweaking (in the NKS presets around 35 parameters are mapped to the controller keyboard). This also inlcudes the "Color" and the 3 EQ parameters ("Bass" + "Body" + "Air") which already offer changing the sound quite much.

Of course using an external EQ could be helpful too.

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:56 pm

You may want to chck out more opinions on the Piano Forum
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthre ... 0&%20.html

The Grandeur:
http://www.pianoworld.com/searchresults3.html?sa=SEARCH

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:25 pm

I was alraedy interested in Alicia's Keys in the past and comments here and in other places + multiple demos and videos got me close to actually buy it while i have not 100% decided yet...
The upgrade from Komplet 10 to Komplete 11 Ultimate would be much to expnsive and not really worth it just to get Alicia's Keys included there.

As only 3 of the original Yamaha C3 Neo Pianos seemed to exist this is a library of a very rare Piano compared to most other libraries out there where the majority seems to be somehow based on a Steinway Model D.

On teh other hand i still got the impression taht after a bit of tweaking teh controls and using external FX si alraedy got graet sounds from The Grandeur.
Anyway Alcicia's Keys seems to have a differnt basic sound (like all other NI Pianos) so it does not just seem to be a queestion of "better " but more of "different".

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:51 pm

In my relatively short time of owning Native Instruments (just a couple or more years), the one 'rule' I've come to practice is to never again buy into any product that has an artist's name for the title. The Alicia Keys & George Duke have both been very disappointing to me, and for that reason, I doubt I will ever seriously consider such third party products like the 'Imogen Heap' either.

Back to 'Grandeur'... It is one of their better piano libraries IMO, but I still never use it. The only 'piano' I play with in the NI LINE has been The Giant, but not for great piano sounds as much as good effect and mangled pianos. I do think at this point I might enjoy Una Corda for the same reason.

With the choice of so many pianos, I find my first go-to(s) are in what Steinberg and Modartt offer me. As always, YMMV

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:56 pm

I just compared the interfaces of THe Grandeur and Galaxy Vintage D, also as both products seemed to be sampled by Galaxy instruments.
The interface seems to look quite similar and both got the same tone color (softer/harder) and lid up/closed controls. Also most of teh otehr controls seem to be quite similar while there are a few differences.

Explanation of the "Color" control at the Vintage D website:

Changes the tone colour or timbre from soft (left) to hard (right) by readjusting the sample mapping. It's a dynamic way of mapping, while balancing the volume differences between softer and harder samples. As a result of turning the 'Colour' knob to the right, you will hear the piano sound 'harder', crispier, and with 'more attack'. Turning it to the left it'll sound 'warmer', 'softer' and with less 'attack'.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:04 pm

As a great addition to the Pianos (+ the Vintage Keys) in Komplete 10 at JRR Shop for around 61€ (after conversion) i just bought XLN Addictive Keys Electric Grand which is based on the Yamaha CP-80 Electric Grand Piano. I had a 32-bit plugin of this in the past but fisrt it is difficult to keep this running and secon it does not sound as good as teh XLN library.
Always loved the sound of the CP-80 (alsbeing a long time Genesis and Phil Collins fan...) and happy to have this now.

Besides that at the Marketpalce for a really low price i also got a second hand license of Alicia's Keys. Waiting for the license being sent to me.

After receiving this (the CP-80 already works here..) together with the other choices i got (including e.g. The Grandeur and teh other NI PIanos in Komplete 10) i will be quite happy for a while...

ruslan.st · Post by **ruslan.st** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:39 am

Comparing Grandeur vs Alicia's Keys I prefer the later.

I am not piano player, but subjectively for me Alicia's Keys sounds more natural, raw. If I remember correctly it was sampled "as is" and more imperfections were captured. And it were some complaints about some notes being too much imperfect

Grandeur, even with all built-in effects switched off, sounds like still EQued and compressed. It has nice, bright tone, but sounds for me too sterile and thin. From this series I prefer Maverick: it seems Galaxy didn't manage to kill all life from Maverick samples by eq and comp like in Grandeur.

fgimian · Post by **fgimian** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:47 am

ruslan.st wrote:Comparing Grandeur vs Alicia's Keys I prefer the later.

I am not piano player, but subjectively for me Alicia's Keys sounds more natural, raw. If I remember correctly it was sampled "as is" and more imperfections were captured. And it were some complaints about some notes being too much imperfect

Grandeur, even with all built-in effects switched off, sounds like still EQued and compressed. It has nice, bright tone, but sounds for me too sterile and thin. From this series I prefer Maverick: it seems Galaxy didn't manage to kill all life from Maverick samples by eq and comp like in Grandeur.

Exactly, totally agreed. I really don't know what they do to their samples to make them sound so bad. Wrong mic choices? Post-processing?

I'm not sure who sampled Alicia's Keys for NI but that company would have done a much much better job imho.

Luckily, The Maverick sounds fantastic with either more EQ or the Body EQ knob turned up by around 10db!

Native Instruments The Grandeur: Any opinions?