DUNE 2 is out now!!

[EnGee]

When exactly have i claimed that u-he synths sound thin, and not punchy? Citation needed.

So is it only SA synths that doesn't sound punchy?

[chk071]

When exactly have i claimed that u-he synths sound thin, and not punchy? Citation needed.

So is it only SA synths that doesn't sound punchy?

No, not at all. It's just that the fans of their synth seem specifically sensitive, whenever someone states that their synths all sound a bit on the tame side. And i will stick to that. Dune 1 already was pretty thin, tame, lacking in the high frequencies, and had a lack of punch. Dune 2 is better in that regard, but, obviously, being version 2 of the same synth, it shares a whole lot of the character. Again, this is no criticism about the synth, rather a personal preference, that i prefer more aggressive sounding, more punchy, and thick synths. I'm sure Dune 2 does great what it was meant for. And it's one of the few synths of that kind, which offers ZDF filters. I wish more synths had that. Again, i'm not too fond of the character of Dune 2's filters. I'd rather have them more creamy, and smooth sounding. Personal preference, again. What is NOT personal preference though is that there are synths which are more punchy and aggressive. That's rather a fact the personal preference is based on.

[Cinebient]

When exactly have i claimed that u-he synths sound thin, and not punchy? Citation needed.

So is it only SA synths that doesn't sound punchy?

No, not at all. It's just that the fans of their synth seem specifically sensitive, whenever someone states that their synths all sound a bit on the tame side. And i will stick to that. Dune 1 already was pretty thin, tame, lacking in the high frequencies, and had a lack of punch. Dune 2 is better in that regard, but, obviously, being version 2 of the same synth, it shares a whole lot of the character. Again, this is no criticism about the synth, rather a personal preference, that i prefer more aggressive sounding, more punchy, and thick synths. I'm sure Dune 2 does great what it was meant for. And it's one of the few synths of that kind, which offers ZDF filters. I wish more synths had that. Again, i'm not too fond of the character of Dune 2's filters. I'd rather have them more creamy, and smooth sounding. Personal preference, again. What is NOT personal preference though is that there are synths which are more punchy and aggressive. That's rather a fact the personal preference is based on.

Yes, fact is Dagger is the most punchy synth out there and Waverazor the most aggressive.
But wait....still preferences. There is NO fact of this.
Give up......
Fact is KVR is a black hole.

[Gamma-UT]

To be honest, I can hear the distinction that Recursive One is making between the types of sound for the FM Saw lead in particular: the clue was in the phrase "ripping sound". When trying to recreate the sound, the natural assumption is that it's a hard-clipped sound. But that's not true in detail. There is a relatively low frequency pulse that runs through the Serum version that's also characteristic of low-frequency, high-resonance TB-303 and the "warping wood" vocoder effect from Royksopp's Vision One that I think is what provides the key to the character of that specific sound.

It has a distinct character, but so does the Nord original – which now sounds as different in the details as a version done on Dune2. I think it's possible to get closer to that Serum version using a combination of the FM oscillator and an MSEG on a second VA or WT oscillator. But you then get into the question of whether it's worth it on a personal level. I was finding that there were more interesting avenues that get away from a specific psytrance cliché (but which are potentially trippy-sounding) through modulating the FM oscillators and the spread/detune functions.

[wagtunes]

When exactly have i claimed that u-he synths sound thin, and not punchy? Citation needed.

So is it only SA synths that doesn't sound punchy?

No, not at all. It's just that the fans of their synth seem specifically sensitive, whenever someone states that their synths all sound a bit on the tame side. And i will stick to that. Dune 1 already was pretty thin, tame, lacking in the high frequencies, and had a lack of punch. Dune 2 is better in that regard, but, obviously, being version 2 of the same synth, it shares a whole lot of the character. Again, this is no criticism about the synth, rather a personal preference, that i prefer more aggressive sounding, more punchy, and thick synths. I'm sure Dune 2 does great what it was meant for. And it's one of the few synths of that kind, which offers ZDF filters. I wish more synths had that. Again, i'm not too fond of the character of Dune 2's filters. I'd rather have them more creamy, and smooth sounding. Personal preference, again. What is NOT personal preference though is that there are synths which are more punchy and aggressive. That's rather a fact the personal preference is based on.

Check out Mr. Alias Pro

[Armagibbon]

alongside NI, in terms of analog modelling.

Dunno man, monark kinda doesn't sound like what it's trying to be.
The legend on the other hand...

[chk071]

I won't comment on Legend, as it seems to be an even bigger holy KVR grail than Dune 2 , but, IMO, NI did an awesome job with Monark, and Reaktor, in terms of analog modelling. Actually, Monark is the most snappy, punchy, with the most hilarious resonant behavior of the filter, VSTi i ever played. And, yes, i know that that guy from Youtube compared 4 VSTi's with his Minimoog, and Legend came on Ttop, fair enough. I don't have a Minimoog, so i have no idea how close it really is. All i know is that is sounds very familiar to the Schulze's, Namlook's, and all those funk artists making extensive use of the real thing. Good enough for me.

[Cinebient]

I also like Dune 2 included FX. I really find Serums FX not good at all, especially the reverb is not good (for me). Spire has great on board FX as well, especially reverb (but my favorite reverb included in a synth is the plate reverb module from P900).
Not so important maybe if you only use extern FX but as part of a patch it can make things golden or a crappy mess.

[Ingonator]

Concerning DUNE 2.5 sounding "thin" or "weak" today i just created a new Bass/Arpeggiator patch from scratch based on the Init patch (in a quite short time so fine tuning is of course possble...). Here is an audio demo:

IW - DUNE 2.5 - Super Acid Bass 1 IW - Demo 1

No external FXs were used for this.

Here is a screenshot where you could see the most features that were used:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... 1%20IW.png

Features used are e.g. a "Supersaw" with 7 detuned Saws in both Oscs 1+2 (+ stereo spread), A Sine Sub-Osc in Osc 3, the Acid Ladder filter, filter drive, distortion + EQ FXs and the envelopes switched to "analog" mode.


I love using The Legend for Bass and Leads and also certain polyphonic sounds but it does not have the same features as used in the DUNE 2.5 patch and demo posted above. So basically comparing DUNE 2.5 and The Legend is just like comparing apples and oranges. Both could do great sounds on their own.

[Cinebient]

So to say it again. I really agree with others that some synths are better for special sounds.
That doesn´t mean Dune 2 could not do it.
For vintage and/or modular sounds i prefer P900.
For leads, Sunrizer. Some of my favorite patches there which i struggle to come close with other synths.
Bass, Dagger, Repro-1
Everything else Dune 2, then Zebra, Omnisphere, Reaktor (which can maybe do it all in theory).
But all that can change too. Repro-5 where are you?

[AnX]

i prefer more aggressive sounding, more punchy, and thick synths.

i'm not too fond of the character of Dune 2's filters. I'd rather have them more creamy, and smooth sounding.

So which synth do you own which is punchy, thick, creamy and smooth?

What is NOT personal preference though is that there are synths which are more punchy and aggressive. That's rather a fact the personal preference is based on.

What are you basing your 'facts' on ? Do you have some measurements to show how D2 is not 'punchy and aggresive' ?

I'd really like to know, as its not the first time you've mentioned it. Rich put up some comparision stuff before showing the new analogue mode envs to perfectly match analogue ones, and with the MSEG's you can shape the sound anyway you want.

Ppl use these buzzwords all the time, and they are really quite meaningless without data to compare.

Im not 'trolling' or being a 'fanboi' im asking genuine questions...

[fluffy_little_something]

So, Ingo, you used 15 waves + filter drive + distortion + EQ in order to prove it doesn't sound thin or weak? Actually, for that it doesn't really sound as impressive or mighty as one might expect imho. Maybe there is also too much stereo for a bass.

I think it is more revealing to use just 2 or 3 waves to check whether a synth sounds weak or thin. After all, that is what most analog synths used and they sounded great at it.

[kokotte]

Another Spy Wt:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/alzktjaslze2d ... 03.wt?dl=0

[chk071]

i prefer more aggressive sounding, more punchy, and thick synths.

i'm not too fond of the character of Dune 2's filters. I'd rather have them more creamy, and smooth sounding.

So which synth do you own which is punchy, thick, creamy and smooth?

What is NOT personal preference though is that there are synths which are more punchy and aggressive. That's rather a fact the personal preference is based on.

What are you basing your 'facts' on ? Do you have some measurements to show how D2 is not 'punchy and aggresive' ?

I'd really like to know, as its not the first time you've mentioned it. Rich put up some comparision stuff before showing the new analogue mode envs to perfectly match analogue ones, and with the MSEG's you can shape the sound anyway you want.

Ppl use these buzzwords all the time, and they are really quite meaningless without data to compare.

Im not 'trolling' or being a 'fanboi' im asking genuine questions...

Yeah, that's absolutely fair enough.

Regarding the question of what i think are synths which have a punchy, creamy, smooth character, i can only once again name my top 3 synths, Waldorf Largo, Spire, and Monark. There is a sound demo from Waldorf, which shows pretty well what i mean, right at the beginning, that thick, "juicy" bass sound:

https://soundcloud.com/waldorf-music/ta ... sets/largo

... also shows how snappy envelopes and filters can get in Largo.

BTW, as sort of a disclaimer, i really think that Synapse did a great job to implement ZDF filters in such a synth, and i definitely think that is the way to go, also audio rate modulation, that's something both Largo and Spire don't offer, and, with extreme modulation settings, you do notice that. They still stay pretty clean with high modulation rates though, unlike the Tone2 synths, so, for most use cases, that's fine.

[sfxsound3]

Do you have some measurements to show how D2 is not 'punchy and aggresive' ?

Actually it's quite the opposite, Dune's basic sound is too cranked, as in punchy x 10. Only proof I have: because of this I'm not using it. Forced and fake beyond acceptability.

All this blathering about mellow and tame makes me go