Syntronik [update March 2018: New T-03 Bonus Content & 4-for-1 bass synth promo] available

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

I have T Racks 3 Deluxe, which upgraded to T Racks Custom Shop - so I guess this would count for the cross grade?

Yes, T-RackS Deluxe is $/€199.99 and v3 was in that general range (sorry I can't recall but you qualify anyway) so you're more than good to go.

[ghettosynth]

Synth means to synthesize the sound. In this "synth" case there is no synthesis going just playback of samples

Your definition of Synthesis is far too limited. Wiki:

"Synthesizers use various methods to generate electronic signals (sounds). Among the most popular waveform synthesis techniques are subtractive synthesis, additive synthesis, wavetable synthesis, frequency modulation synthesis, phase distortion synthesis, physical modeling synthesis and sample-based synthesis".

People will debate this forever, but, the point remains that some people view sample based synthesis as somewhat distinct from non-sample based synthesis owing to both the limitations and advantages of the former. Wiki definitions will not change that.

I like certain sample based instruments quite a bit, but generally not sample based variants of classic analog synths. For me, there's just not much point to them. Other people may disagree with that, and that's fine.

I think his point is that liking or disliking a variant of synthesis does not make it NOT synthesizing. Also, there are a lot of hybrid "synthesizers" on the market. The new Novation Peak has digital oscillators. Does that make it NOT a synthesizer? Many hardware synths have DCO's and digital filters. For example DSI just added a digital HPF to one of their synths? Does that make it not a synthesizer?

I understand the point, it's just pedantic. If that's what one gets from the distinction then one is missing the point of the distinction. Virtually every effort in creating sounds that don't sound like the natural timbre of an instrument can be viewed as "synthesis" if one yields a broad enough definition.

In the context of this thread it's just convenient to refer to romplers vs synthesizers. Doesn't mean a rompler isn't a synthesizer in technical terms, it's just lazy use of terminology.

Anyhow, I agree that sampled oscillators have some built in limitations. And I've not been a fan of sample based synth recreations. However, there are some advantages that come with it as well. It doesn't seem like this is just a "sampled preset" library, although it does have some of those. It remains to be seen how good the filter and VCA modeling is. In conjunction with functional modulation back to the oscillators, these will be the things that make/break the kit for me. I am also a bit put off by the lack of the 3rd OSC on some of the synths. It's an important part of many patch configurations. So, we'll see.

Of course, as I said, some people will find this useful. I won't, and I really can't be assed to explain it TBH. Like every purchase decision it's a complex venn diagram of needs, values, and preferences that result in an instant gut response that is seldom wrong, for me.

[jbraner]

I have T Racks 3 Deluxe, which upgraded to T Racks Custom Shop - so I guess this would count for the cross grade?

Yes, T-RackS Deluxe is $/€199.99 and v3 was in that general range (sorry I can't recall but you qualify anyway) so you're more than good to go.

Thanks Peter

[SJ_Digriz]

I understand the point, it's just pedantic. If that's what one gets from the distinction then one is missing the point of the distinction. Virtually every effort in creating sounds that don't sound like the natural timbre of an instrument can be viewed as "synthesis" if one yields a broad enough definition.

I think is where we disagree. There are many forms of synthesis. Additive, subtractive, FM etc... Each has a pretty well worn and broad definition. And, they pretty much universally fall back on subtractive techniques eventually in the signal flow.

My point was that using samples as the oscillators does not automatically make this a rompler. It's possible that it will be treated this way due to the nature of the rest of the system. However, there is also the possibility that this will work well in the context of something like DCO's or limited wavetables (without the added capabilities of wavetable synthesis ).

Like every purchase decision it's a complex venn diagram of needs, values, and preferences that result in an instant gut response that is seldom wrong, for me.

No argument on that part of the discussion. I'm still not certain which way I'm going.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Just to be sure people don't misunderstand, the third (or fourth, fifth, and onward) is not "missing". In my long-winded reply copied over from the Cakewalk forum, I believe this is addressed and I'll post about it again below (and yes, I understand the context but I'm not sure everybody will if reading through quickly and will just assume there's a lack of 3+ oscillator patches etc available based on some of the conversation here but that's not true):

Syntronik has 2 oscillator slots. We simulate 3-oscillator sounds (and 4, 8, 10-oscillator sounds, etc.) by providing samples of multiple oscillators that can in the either or both of the oscillator slots. So you cannot customize tuning for 3 separate oscillators, you can only do it for two of them. But remember that with our extensive — and I mean *extensive* — supply of multi-oscillator samples, we don’t expect this to be limiting to the intended audience at all.

Of course this is not going to be the solution for someone looking for ground-up sound design, and that's also not the true intent of Syntronik.

[AnX]

There are many forms of synthesis. Additive, subtractive, FM etc... Each has a pretty well worn and broad definition. And, they pretty much universally fall back on subtractive techniques eventually in the signal flow.

Yeah, apart from additive...

[ghettosynth]

My point was that using samples as the oscillators does not automatically make this a rompler.

No, but, in a discussion like this those kinds of responses are also based on a gut reading. My money's on it being basically a rompler. Do you want some of that action?

[SJ_Digriz]

There are many forms of synthesis. Additive, subtractive, FM etc... Each has a pretty well worn and broad definition. And, they pretty much universally fall back on subtractive techniques eventually in the signal flow.

Yeah, apart from additive...

I'm not going to say all .. but in most cases the output of additive synthesis is then run through a subtractive process. Even if it's just a steep shelf filter to reduce the chances of injuring furry animals hearing.

[SJ_Digriz]

My point was that using samples as the oscillators does not automatically make this a rompler.

No, but, in a discussion like this those kinds of responses are also based on a gut reading. My money's on it being basically a rompler. Do you want some of that action?

Hell no .. .this is IKM we're talking about.

[wagtunes]

Question: Does Nexus have a filter?

[zerocrossing]

Just to be sure people don't misunderstand, the third (or fourth, fifth, and onward) is not "missing". In my long-winded reply copied over from the Cakewalk forum, I believe this is addressed and I'll post about it again below (and yes, I understand the context but I'm not sure everybody will if reading through quickly and will just assume there's a lack of 3+ oscillator patches etc available based on some of the conversation here but that's not true):

Syntronik has 2 oscillator slots. We simulate 3-oscillator sounds (and 4, 8, 10-oscillator sounds, etc.) by providing samples of multiple oscillators that can in the either or both of the oscillator slots. So you cannot customize tuning for 3 separate oscillators, you can only do it for two of them. But remember that with our extensive — and I mean *extensive* — supply of multi-oscillator samples, we don’t expect this to be limiting to the intended audience at all.

Of course this is not going to be the solution for someone looking for ground-up sound design, and that's also not the true intent of Syntronik.

What are the odds of getting a patch set-up demo video, before the pre-order is up? Just basic stuff, showing off the filters, oscillators and some effects.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

I hope we've posted enough information and materials so far for people to get a good idea that Syntronik isn't just some basic rompler. Plus I think only IK could have the lead on the project be the actual Product Manager + one of the designers of one of the sought-after synths in this product (Andromeda A6 if that was missed in my previous post mentioning it) and still have this much skepticism about actual direct answers and posted information I'm pretty sure he isn't going to let the Andromeda suck or come anywhere near that (nor the rest which are mostly from his collection too).



However, I have also noted clearly the target audience for Syntronik in previous posts - so we're not trying to deceive anybody or sell them something they don't want/need.

[ghettosynth]

My point was that using samples as the oscillators does not automatically make this a rompler.

No, but, in a discussion like this those kinds of responses are also based on a gut reading. My money's on it being basically a rompler. Do you want some of that action?

Hell no .. .this is IKM we're talking about.

See, that's all I'm saying. The phrase rompler is useful. It may be more, but it probably won't be. Not that that's a bad thing, they serve a valid purpose, I have a few that I like, but I think that's really all that people are trying to get at when they use the phrase. There's not a whole lot of value to these drawn out pedantic discussions. And, know that I'm very much aware or the irony of those words coming out of my mouth, so to speak.

[zerocrossing]

I hope we've posted enough information and materials so far for people to get a good idea that Syntronik isn't just some basic rompler.

That's why I suggested a kind of short "SonicState" like demo, where you start a patch from scratch, trying out a few different samples and filters. One of cooler things about this is the ability to mix different oscillators with different filters. Let's see that in action. Add a few effects. Basically, reverse engineer a preset.

I don't think anyone is questioning the sound. I think it sounds gorgeous, but I'd love to see something less slickly produced, that shows the workflow and possibilities. Send me a beta. I'll do it.

[ghettosynth]

I hope we've posted enough information and materials so far for people to get a good idea that Syntronik isn't just some basic rompler.

As far as I can tell, it is a basic rompler. So, no, unless you post more material, that's the sense that I get.

From the images it's clear that it's essentially one basic synth engine with an LFO, a filter EG and an amp EG and a switchable filter. Every synth has this, even the 303. An original 303, of course, has NOTHING like this in its architecture.

So, as I see it you have roughly the same architecture as any number or romplers that I own, only even less complex. The JD800, for example, has a separate pitch envelope.

I don't mean it as an insult, but I can't see that you have a complex synth engine there at all. Kudos for the selection of modeled filters, I hope that they sound good. However, at the end of the day, you have a rompler engine with modeled filters and a selection of samples from a collection of analog synths. Nothing wrong with that as a product, like I said earlier, I think that it's a good compromise that sits in between modeled synths and Kontact, but there's not a lot of point in saying that it's not a rompler when it exactly meets the definition of one. Having different front panels to go along with different sample sets does not change the underlying architecture.

Further, if it ISN'T a rompler, then I predict that it won't sound good. The only way to really capture the drama of analog synths like this is to use fairly long looped samples in rompler fashion. As far as I can tell, you simply don't have enough complexity in your synth engine to bring interesting patches to the table otherwise.

I have a couple of DIY VCOs in my modular that make the most awesome drone when played together. I could listen to it forever. If I tried to turn that sound into a short wavetable like sound then all of the character would be lost. The only way to capture some of that character is with long samples that are properly looped. If I were to do that, it would sound good in Kontakt or a synth engine like this. So, I hope that it IS a rompler, I think that your success with it depends on that.