It's That Time Again...I Need A Synth

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twal wrote:Depends on how cheap the bundle is in relation to each individual soundset. Touch the Universe has a great bundle for Lush that comes out to like buy 2 get one free or something. They are all good too.

As a customer I prefer:

The instance described above.

For the developer to concentrate on a few synths; therefore, I can buy more than one kind of synth soundset for a particular synth. This allows me to do repeat business with the same designer and follow their increase in creativity, and understanding of a particular synth.

It allows me to PURCHASE a synth just to know I will be able to continue to do business with them in the Future. And know I have someone dedicated to providing a product for me later. I am of the type where I don't want 100 synths, but i will get one or two if i know the developer is bringing more for a synth (Skippy does primarily Omnisphere now because he knows his fan base well, and synths like Spire have become torrented a lot). Not everyone has a lot of synths, so those customers are lost who can only buy the one or two soundsets of a synth provided when they first visit the site. Also, I believe those with a lot of synths can afford them as well as sound design themselves as opposed to the one guy who saved up for a synth and needs presets and can't create his own patches.

For a customer, themes are very important. The actual contents of most products don't sell, but brand and image do. When you buy pepsi, you get pepsi. When you buy McDonald's the same. If I were to buy a soundset that gives me a lot of something, I'll go back and buy more even if it's similar. I also go back if there is new theme of the same feeling (the Mexican burger flame broiled opposed to the Texan burger) like House opposed to New - age house.

I enjoy personalities. I enjoy free youtube videos. I enjoy the individuals opinions and outlooks. I don't enjoy huge bland menus with lists. I like when the developer holds interesting views on many genres but keeps it open; and their interest for specific styles to implement and interest in specific synths- to explain the ideosyncracies of them and features.
You make some excellent points and I have to admit that I never looked at things from this perspective before.

The problem is, at least for me, once I've done 250 presets for a synth, it's difficult for me to come up with things that are truly unique. I don't want to just do the same sounds over and over, give them different names, and call them a library. I feel that's not being fair to those who buy libraries from me to just get more of the same.

And let's really be honest here. And of course this all depends on how complex the synth itself is. You're only going to get so many really different sounds out of a synth, especially if it's something like, say, The Legend which has relatively few waveforms. I find, programming some synths, by the time I start getting into the hundreds of patches, things start to really blur. I mean take a listen to the libraries for some of the simpler synths. How many of those sounds are so similar to each other?

Something like Omnisphere, I could probably make 300 patches of just soundscapes. But that's an unusual synth. Same for Falcon, which I have done two libraries for, one of 605 patches and another of over 300. But those are the exceptions and not the norm.

And then there is my own personal experience with sales. My first Omnisphere library has sold double the amount of sets as my followup for Omnisphere 2. Same thing with Serum. My original Serum library has sold 5 times as many sets as my followup.

So for me, the "customer coming back to get a 2nd set of the same library scenario" isn't the case. Not even close. Thus, the reason why I refrain from doing more than one set for a synth. I don't want to put all that work into something and get minimal results.

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it's like native instruments komplete.
If you buy 3 synth a 150€ or if you buy komplete for 600€ and get 10 synths + effects + libraries .

Some people bought battery, reaktor or massive seperate, because they need exactly this synth or sampler.
I bet most people bought komplete, although they only use 5% of these sounds.

So you have more than 40 libraies, I bet if you offer bundled deals, people would buy more than they need, it's like - "oh this synth I own also, why not"

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sacer wrote:it's like native instruments komplete.
If you buy 3 synth a 150€ or if you buy komplete for 600€ and get 10 synths + effects + libraries .

Some people bought battery, reaktor or massive seperate, because they need exactly this synth or sampler.
I bet most people bought komplete, although they only use 5% of these sounds.

So you have more than 40 libraies, I bet if you offer bundled deals, people would buy more than they need, it's like - "oh this synth I own also, why not"
Well, it's something to consider. But if I offered a bundle price for all my libraries, we're talking a crap ton of money even at 50% off. Think about it. 41 libraries has to be at least 7 or 8 hundred dollars. Anyway, it's something to think about for the future.

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sacer wrote:maybe it has nothing to do with the synth, ...would also suggest strobe 2 and lush 101,

but i would buy more complex patches like modular, falcon, avenger or icarus, if the style would fit to my techno, techhouse production...(no comercial edm)

bought from u only the legend patches, because the fit to my style

if you reach a cool style, than the synth is independent. Ok there is some difference if i have already 100 sylenth soundsets and no soundsets for falcon or modular, for example.

Do you also offer bundles ? like if you buy 5 or 10 or 20 soundsets....because you already offer a lot of soundsets
Speaking of Strobe, why is the mouse issue (https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=186462) still present? Is there a workaround or something?

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loungepanda wrote:
sacer wrote:maybe it has nothing to do with the synth, ...would also suggest strobe 2 and lush 101,

but i would buy more complex patches like modular, falcon, avenger or icarus, if the style would fit to my techno, techhouse production...(no comercial edm)

bought from u only the legend patches, because the fit to my style

if you reach a cool style, than the synth is independent. Ok there is some difference if i have already 100 sylenth soundsets and no soundsets for falcon or modular, for example.

Do you also offer bundles ? like if you buy 5 or 10 or 20 soundsets....because you already offer a lot of soundsets
Speaking of Strobe, why is the mouse issue (https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=186462) still present? Is there a workaround or something?

Off subject, but I will get back to Wagtunes.

I have a question about DCAM - Synth Squa. Can one get it still somehow, and how much was it sold for originally or was it free?- I want the cheap upgrade to Strobe2

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twal wrote:
loungepanda wrote:
sacer wrote:maybe it has nothing to do with the synth, ...would also suggest strobe 2 and lush 101,

but i would buy more complex patches like modular, falcon, avenger or icarus, if the style would fit to my techno, techhouse production...(no comercial edm)

bought from u only the legend patches, because the fit to my style

if you reach a cool style, than the synth is independent. Ok there is some difference if i have already 100 sylenth soundsets and no soundsets for falcon or modular, for example.

Do you also offer bundles ? like if you buy 5 or 10 or 20 soundsets....because you already offer a lot of soundsets
Speaking of Strobe, why is the mouse issue (https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=186462) still present? Is there a workaround or something?

Off subject, but I will get back to Wagtunes.

I have a question about DCAM - Synth Squa. Can one get it still somehow, and how much was it sold for originally or was it free?- I want the cheap upgrade to Strobe2
Discontinued and no longer available.

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IIRC, Synth Squad was originally sold for $249. You can only get it used now, and the transfer fee is $50 i think.

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chk071 wrote:IIRC, Synth Squad was originally sold for $249. You can only get it used now, and the transfer fee is $50 i think.
Yeah thanks, I just saw online at http://www.performanceaudio.com it sells for 249. Not cheap so that's finito for me.

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I saw it offered here in the Sell & Buy forum a couple of times, for quite cheap. I think some just sell their account, so that there is no transfer fee involved. Maybe you have luck, and can get hold a copy for small money.

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wagtunes wrote:"After 150 to 200 patches, I get burnt out programming anymore for that synth, usually because, personally, I already have everything I'd want for sounds."
I've made that many tracks entirely with one good synth, and I still get excited when I load up a single instance. :hyper:

If you want good sales, you'll make (and market) countless patches passionately with an attitude of enjoyment.
wagtunes wrote: "Again, people need to learn to read OPs. This isn't for personal use. As I said, it's for business. It's for the purpose of creating libraries to sell. No, I don't need anymore synths for personal use. I have all I'll ever need for a lifetime. This is strictly for business."
People need to learn not to contradict themselves. :hihi: If it's strictly professional sound design for business, you'll do what everyone else is doing and stick to making patches for Serum, Synth1, Massive, and Spire until the market dictates otherwise.

Aaaand to answer your question, :lol: to find a new synth that people are using and you could easily just look at the top plugins on splice https://splice.com/plugins/search?categ ... ynthesizer or blend.io https://blend.io/plugins/category/synth :tu:

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574X wrote:
wagtunes wrote:"After 150 to 200 patches, I get burnt out programming anymore for that synth, usually because, personally, I already have everything I'd want for sounds."
I've made that many tracks entirely with one good synth, and I still get excited when I load up a single instance. :hyper:

If you want good sales, you'll make (and market) countless patches passionately with an attitude of enjoyment.
wagtunes wrote: "Again, people need to learn to read OPs. This isn't for personal use. As I said, it's for business. It's for the purpose of creating libraries to sell. No, I don't need anymore synths for personal use. I have all I'll ever need for a lifetime. This is strictly for business."
People need to learn not to contradict themselves. :hihi: If it's strictly professional sound design for business, you'll do what everyone else is doing and stick to making patches for Serum, Synth1, Massive, and Spire until the market dictates otherwise.

Aaaand to answer your question, :lol: to find a new synth that people are using and you could easily just look at the top plugins on splice https://splice.com/plugins/search?categ ... ynthesizer or blend.io https://blend.io/plugins/category/synth :tu:
Well, like I said, it's easier said than done. Maybe you can make 5,000 patches for one synth. I can't. I'd lose my mind. You can't force passion.

And as far as Massive goes, my worst selling library so why would I waste more time making yet more patches for it? Doesn't make any logical sense.

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The sense comes from remembering and appreciating how these are carefully crafted instruments, made from years of passionate labor :love: - let alone the decades of prior development of over instruments that they draw from.

It takes tremendous skill to properly manipulate these synthesizers, to find their sweet spots and intricacies. You form a relationship with this instrument and it treats you well if you find a love for the process. If you did this with massive and marketed it as such, it would sell well.

There are also third party distributors which accept soundbanks for specifically those synths I mentioned.

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574X wrote:The sense comes from remembering that these are carefully crafted instruments, made from years of passionate labor :love: - let alone the decades of prior development of over instruments that they draw from.

It takes tremendous skill to properly manipulate these synthesizers, to find their sweet spots and intricacies. You form a relationship with this instrument and it treats you well if you find a love for the process. If you did this with massive and marketed it as such, it would sell well.

There are also third party distributors which accept soundbanks for specifically those synths I mentioned.
3rd party distributors. That I would be interested in. So I'm assuming the way it works is they sell the library for you and take a percentage (usually a pretty big one) of the sale. This is something I've never researched specifically because I've been too busy doing things on my own. But it is something to consider.

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Of all the things I said... :lol: I suggest humbly studying tutorials of modern sound design because that is often what 3rd party distributors can most easily sell. Thankfully, the synths I mentioned (I meant Sylenth1 ofc) also are the tool of choice in most tutorials.

I'm working with them right now. I'll let you know how it goes and give you a bunch of info then.

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wagtunes wrote:
twal wrote:Depends on how cheap the bundle is in relation to each individual soundset. Touch the Universe has a great bundle for Lush that comes out to like buy 2 get one free or something. They are all good too.

As a customer I prefer:

The instance described above.

For the developer to concentrate on a few synths; therefore, I can buy more than one kind of synth soundset for a particular synth. This allows me to do repeat business with the same designer and follow their increase in creativity, and understanding of a particular synth.

It allows me to PURCHASE a synth just to know I will be able to continue to do business with them in the Future. And know I have someone dedicated to providing a product for me later. I am of the type where I don't want 100 synths, but i will get one or two if i know the developer is bringing more for a synth (Skippy does primarily Omnisphere now because he knows his fan base well, and synths like Spire have become torrented a lot). Not everyone has a lot of synths, so those customers are lost who can only buy the one or two soundsets of a synth provided when they first visit the site. Also, I believe those with a lot of synths can afford them as well as sound design themselves as opposed to the one guy who saved up for a synth and needs presets and can't create his own patches.

For a customer, themes are very important. The actual contents of most products don't sell, but brand and image do. When you buy pepsi, you get pepsi. When you buy McDonald's the same. If I were to buy a soundset that gives me a lot of something, I'll go back and buy more even if it's similar. I also go back if there is new theme of the same feeling (the Mexican burger flame broiled opposed to the Texan burger) like House opposed to New - age house.

I enjoy personalities. I enjoy free youtube videos. I enjoy the individuals opinions and outlooks. I don't enjoy huge bland menus with lists. I like when the developer holds interesting views on many genres but keeps it open; and their interest for specific styles to implement and interest in specific synths- to explain the ideosyncracies of them and features.

The problem is, at least for me, once I've done 250 presets for a synth, it's difficult for me to come up with things that are truly unique. I don't want to just do the same sounds over and over, give them different names, and call them a library. I feel that's not being fair to those who buy libraries from me to just get more of the same.

And let's really be honest here. And of course this all depends on how complex the synth itself is. You're only going to get so many really different sounds out of a synth, especially if it's something like, say, The Legend which has relatively few waveforms. I find, programming some synths, by the time I start getting into the hundreds of patches, things start to really blur. I mean take a listen to the libraries for some of the simpler synths. How many of those sounds are so similar to each other?

Something like Omnisphere, I could probably make 300 patches of just soundscapes. But that's an unusual synth. Same for Falcon, which I have done two libraries for, one of 605 patches and another of over 300. But those are the exceptions and not the norm.

And then there is my own personal experience with sales. My first Omnisphere library has sold double the amount of sets as my followup for Omnisphere 2. Same thing with Serum. My original Serum library has sold 5 times as many sets as my followup.

So for me, the "customer coming back to get a 2nd set of the same library scenario" isn't the case. Not even close. Thus, the reason why I refrain from doing more than one set for a synth. I don't want to put all that work into something and get minimal results.
I think you can produce specific sound sets for specific genres. If a synth preset pack sales but the second one doesn't sell as well, I think it would be better to change the focus on the second pack to something else. You say that you run out of sounds to make for a synth but it really depends on the synth. Yeah Legend and most analog emulations will have a hard time being wide in sounds, but something like Omnisphere like you pointed out has many possibilities- and John Lemkul has proved that by making a big library for different genres and styles. He also does a ton of free work making youtube videos and streaming to promote his soundsets as well has have a big email list. I saw that Falcon has sold well for you and I believe that to be because a lot of synth buyers are looking for an all in one station and don't want to spend years on KVR figuring out the wide array of synth specifics and character of different synths. So they look online to fill up their workhorse with a lot of presets online because they won't sound design. Same thing goes for Omnisphere. The marketing approach really has a lot to do with how the sells will go for each synth. I can say that if I found one for a synth a place to buy multiple soundsets from I would do it, but most sites make only one or 2 packs for a synth. I understand why. And I'm sure it can get boring trying to figure out how to do such a thing. I believe that a lot of sound designers stick to too much of the same thing. I see that most of your sounds are geared toward the older crowd and a lot of the preset packs sound similar to each other even though they are of different synths. If you branched out to "BIGGEST blockbuster EDM Sounds" than your sales would increase significantly. It comes down to what you want to make in the end, but audience is the main important thing if you want money. Vandalismsamples has a very good marketing approach, I'm very impressed with them. Xeno does a wide variety of genres. AiynZahev is really good too. There are others but these ones stand out because of their youtube brand. Your youtube channel has no pics, the content is scattered about, and you don't provide much free music value. You have no email nor any email lists. When I type Wagtunes into google your site doesn't even show up on the first page but that's your youtube/kvrname not your site name. You are a very personable person, your site should show your face and style. I like wagtunes as a name. Your avatar head is a very good brand advertisement, it sticks out in my mind very, very, well. That is one of the reasons why I reply to your posts. Your persona on here is very standoutish. Your site though is very plain with your soundsets being just a list of the synth. There are no pictures, there are no soundset names, there are no colors and the print is black on my computer so I have to mouse over the list to see it. Since there is no representation of the presets I have no idea what the sounds are going to be like unless I go to your soundcloud page which brings back the head, but there's nothing interesting like it on the page. The site is also very dark while the preset pages are white which gives no continuity to the site. The list is also very long so if someone were to browse it they may not find what they need if it were alphabetical. The site also tells nothing about you. You clearly have great skills. But nobody would know that unless they go to soundcloud which they may never get to because they are bored. Just some things to think about.

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