Orchestral library

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Also, although Jancivil is 99.9% correct .. you don't have to work with Instrument Pro via expression maps. I don't believe he meant it that way. But I wanted to point out that you can, admittedly role your own, convert all the presets to x axis keyswitching like other libraries for Kontakt and the like, or set up your own x/y controller to switch between the articulation in the methodology preferred by VSL. I did the later since it let me use the existing presets much easier.

Instrument Pro and VEP Pro are very, very deep applications. But, IMO they are the best sample environment on the market. I wish Kontakt had more Instrument Pro features. The x/y concept for selecting articulation is a great idea for libraries with a zillion of them. Adding a z function to select alternate matrices is brilliant. It allows very complex articulation selection without the limitations of the scripting engines in other samplers. And yet is fairly simple to control from a DAW once you understand it.

But, the feature sets can be overwhelming at first.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer

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Just for the hell of it, I went to the VSL site and listened to a lot of demos. And I mean a LOT.

I didn't hear anything there that made me go "Damn, I wish I didn't spend all this money on EWQL libraries."

To me, there's very little difference.

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wagtunes wrote:Just for the hell of it, I went to the VSL site and listened to a lot of demos. And I mean a LOT.

I didn't hear anything there that made me go "Damn, I wish I didn't spend all this money on EWQL libraries."

To me, there's very little difference.
If you have a steinberg dongle, you can get a demo of Instrument Pro. Use it and let us know if you think the EWQL player is in the same league. To be fair, it's been several years since I've used that player. So, maybe they've caught up. But, as far as I know the streaming in the VSL Instrument player is as good as it gets, and you can default everything to load purged. Good streaming + good memory management + good libraries ... downside is the cost. VSL be pricey.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer

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SJ_Digriz wrote:
wagtunes wrote:Just for the hell of it, I went to the VSL site and listened to a lot of demos. And I mean a LOT.

I didn't hear anything there that made me go "Damn, I wish I didn't spend all this money on EWQL libraries."

To me, there's very little difference.
If you have a steinberg dongle, you can get a demo of Instrument Pro. Use it and let us know if you think the EWQL player is in the same league. To be fair, it's been several years since I've used that player. So, maybe they've caught up. But, as far as I know the streaming in the VSL Instrument player is as good as it gets, and you can default everything to load purged. Good streaming + good memory management + good libraries ... downside is the cost. VSL be pricey.
Play VST aside, I don't hear that big a difference in the sound. That's all I care about...the sound.

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wagtunes wrote: Play VST aside, I don't hear that big a difference in the sound. That's all I care about...the sound.
Fine, but the OP was asking for good memory/CPU usage as a parameter. Those are the realm of the player, not the library. I'm not knocking the EWQL libraries by the way.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer

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SJ_Digriz wrote:
wagtunes wrote: Play VST aside, I don't hear that big a difference in the sound. That's all I care about...the sound.
Fine, but the OP was asking for good memory/CPU usage as a parameter. Those are the realm of the player, not the library. I'm not knocking the EWQL libraries by the way.
Then what exactly are you paying for with VSL that the prices are so astronomically higher than EWQL libraries because, sound wise, I'm not hearing the justification for such a huge price difference

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SJ_Digriz wrote:- you don't have to work with Instrument Pro via expression maps.
No, and above I said I don't, as I don't compose from notation.

I mentioned it as an example of VSL working with Cubase as primary. I mean if you have to switch hosts (again I don't know what happens with Ableton Live and performance but I don't feature that pattern-oriented way o' life for this)... the way to do 'more', in both instruments and plugins is VE Pro, and life is simpler w. Cubase, the setup for multi-outputs is right there in the rack; enable them and go.

VI Pro is the best in terms of seeing everything, and in terms of working with multiple articulations there is still only an approximation attempted by, only a few devs, for instance Orchestral Tools.
One Matrix will contain for instance your articulations (1st in the horizontal dimension*) that are all keyswitched, then say you have speed switching (legato in the left cell, trills or fast legato in the right cell in another Matrix. *: then you may want to have a number of those in the horizontal dimension stacked vertically, and to go to that V dimension you may switch CC, default = Mod Wheel. Or whatever you want all of this to be, it's all there in the one section of one page in drop-downs.
The Matrices then comprise a Preset.

THEN, let's say you work with crescendi and dimuendi articulations (or scales/arpeggi, or whatever 'loops' that unfold over time), the Time Stretch feature is intuitive, expanded into enveloped time stretch in VI Pro 2.

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wagtunes wrote:
SJ_Digriz wrote:
wagtunes wrote: Play VST aside, I don't hear that big a difference in the sound. That's all I care about...the sound.
Fine, but the OP was asking for good memory/CPU usage as a parameter. Those are the realm of the player, not the library. I'm not knocking the EWQL libraries by the way.
Then what exactly are you paying for with VSL that the prices are so astronomically higher than EWQL libraries because, sound wise, I'm not hearing the justification for such a huge price difference
Well, if you read the thread you'll begin to see. However, from your "symphony" it would appear the advancements in workflow, I mean what someone using *many* articulations towards a really viable and convincing product demands, isn't going to be so crucial to you. No personal offense meant, just sayin'. People have these interests that didn't occur to you (so I guess you are skimming these aspects here).

I don't know about "astronomically higher" per what you actually get. I do know from EWQL's ways and as I said already, the Play instrument is quite a bit inferior to Vienna Instrument (let alone VI Pro 1, and we're doing VI Pro 2 today) for a whole lotta reasons.
Besides, the OP was a 'within this budget' kind of deal, and he found VSL SE palatable. I am f a r from being a wealthy person. Anyway, how many demos did you even check out?

Then, did you miss what Vienna Ensemble Pro is even for?
Anecdote: the first time I used it I loaded everything I had in a completely impossible-to-hear in-real-time Cubase project, all up in Kontakt multis, and I could hear everything in real time. I would assess that as around 10x better use of the CPU.
Another aspect of VE Pro is that you can create instances inside the 'metaframe' in order to prioritize multicore usage; let's say you have heavy synths and CPU-eating FX vs acoustic instruments samples which use more efficient FX and less of, you may assign more 'threads per instance' to the former instance.

THEN, I for one still have a few things which haven't gone (and will never go) to 64-bit. So, there's your 32-bit and 64-bit VE Pro 'servers', which run alongside each other. Until this year, I used Cubase 5 under OS X, a 32-bit DAW. Both these VEPs connect to it as plugins as long as it's a 64-bit kernel, I've never used J-Bridge or any of that.

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wagtunes wrote: Then what exactly are you paying for with VSL that the prices are so astronomically higher than EWQL libraries because, sound wise, I'm not hearing the justification for such a huge price difference
can you make an small Orchestral composition with your EWQL Librarys and also mention which of those librarys you used ?

can you also say which VSL Librarys you compare with the EWQL Ones about those price differents ?

i like to learn something new everyday .

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DrumAddict wrote:
wagtunes wrote: Then what exactly are you paying for with VSL that the prices are so astronomically higher than EWQL libraries because, sound wise, I'm not hearing the justification for such a huge price difference
can you make an small Orchestral composition with your EWQL Librarys and also mention which of those librarys you used ?

can you also say which VSL Librarys you compare with the EWQL Ones about those price differents ?

i like to learn something new everyday .
Listen to the first 16 tracks of this play list.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... -originals

It's a Broadway style soundtrack all done with EWQL libraries and Vocaloid for the vocals.

As to which libraries I compared, I went to their site and listened to everything. I mean everything. From their top of the line to their budget stuff. I heard nothing that made me go "Damn, I should have gotten this instead of EWQL."

Certainly not for 12 grand for everything. That's absolute insanity.

To the poster above, is memory management is better as well as CPU usage, that's fine. Still isn't worth the extra cost. Not to me. I'll deal with the long loading times and having to, once in a while, freeze tracks. The sound is basically the same. So the rest of it just isn't that important to me to spend that kind of money.

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So you can't hear the difference between what you posted and music composition examples on the VSL site?

https://vsl.co.at/en/Music

go to that link and listen to Guy Bacos, A Walk in the Park. Or anything by Guy Bacos for that matter.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer

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jancivil wrote:
SJ_Digriz wrote:- you don't have to work with Instrument Pro via expression maps.
No, and above I said I don't, as I don't compose from notation.

I mentioned it as an example of VSL working with Cubase as primary. ....
For sure Jancivil, but maybe it's just the way I read it that is sounded like you were suggesting that Cubase was the best option because of Expression Maps. I also am a Cubase user and use expression maps extensively. However, I found for complex articulation configurations expressions maps are not useable. So, I changed a lot of the x/y/z mapping functions similar to what you are doing.

I also use VEPro to host the vast majority of libraries I use. It is a real advantage to keep all of those libraries up, while I swap projects quickly instead of dog slow waiting for every library to reload. Not to mention to superior CPU utilization and management.

Anyhow, I just wanted to make sure that the OP didn't think that without Cubase and Expression Maps, that VI Pro and VEP were going to suck or something. My bad if I was reading into your post to much.
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer

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wagtunes wrote:
Listen to the first 16 tracks of this play list.
sorry to say this , but these are not real orchestral compositions imo , and sorry after the 3 th track i stopped listening as everything in those 3 tracks sounds similar and the same .

again i would like to know which of EWQL Librarys you compare with the VSL ones without any excuses .

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WTF is it with people here lately giving me orders?

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wagtunes wrote:WTF is it with people here lately giving me orders?
and fries .. don't forget the fries. :D
If you have to ask, you can't afford the answer

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