KVR Audio

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:19 pm

The famous last words of devs sorely missed:

ARP Avatar ('77)

Sequential Circuits Prophet 3000 ('87)

Ensoniq Fizmo ('98)

Too bad the market wasn't ready for them

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:31 pm

Numanoid wrote:The famous last words of devs sorely missed:

ARP Avatar ('77)

This was just a bad product. People like them today, but not as a guitar synth, rather, they are just a monophonic keyboardless Ody. This was the opposite of what Dave Smith is good at, it wasn't that the market wasn't ready, it was that the technology wasn't there and the product simply wasn't really any good. For the most part, the people that did use the Avatar with guitars used them for the hex fuzz.

Ensoniq Fizmo ('98)

Good ideas, shitty implementation and too little too late.

It's interesting because, for a while, nobody really cared about synthesis. Keyboards were all pretty much workstations and it was all about how much polyphony and how natural of a sound you could create.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:36 pm

My point being, using ARP, Sequential Circuits and Ensoniq as examples, which all had established themselves with worthwhile products like Odyssey, Prophet 5, Mirage/SQ80.

It only takes one dud/"misunderstood" product to take you out of business, that is a bit scary

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:58 pm

Numanoid wrote:My point being, using ARP, Sequential Circuits and Ensoniq as examples, which all had established themselves with worthwhile products like Odyssey, Prophet 5, Mirage/SQ80.

It only takes one dud/"misunderstood" product to take you out of business, that is a bit scary

Well, with Arp it was really several product blunders. Do you have Mark Vail's book? It has some interesting and detailed discussion of Arp's failure. It's always way more complicated than "one misunderstood product."

I would say that the same is true with Ensoniq as well. They simply weren't breaking new ground and failed to catch on to what was driving the workstation market. Their stuff was always fairly well built and their existing customers were loyal, but they really couldn't sway new customers away from the shiny stuff coming from the big three.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:04 pm

ghettosynth wrote: I think that only Ensoniq was really able to hold their own for a while, but they started out in that custom VLSI digital mode.

E-Mu Systems also did quite well for a while (but they were also producing their own VLSI chips). And Akai was the undisputed "queen" of sampling.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:07 pm

ghettosynth wrote:Well, with Arp it was really several product blunders.

Summing up, I think they had more hits than misses

2600, Axxe, Odyssey (mk1-3), Omni, Pro-Soloist, Quadra, Solina

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:10 pm

Numanoid wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:Well, with Arp it was really several product blunders.
Summing up, I think they had more hits than misses

The last product of ARP (which was released under Fender Rhodes label) was the Chroma. It was basically finished when ARP closed. But it wouldn't have saved them either.

cryophonik · Post by **cryophonik** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:11 pm

What if I told you guys that there just might be enough room in the market for both the REV2 and the DM12 to succeed?

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:12 pm

fmr wrote:The last product of ARP (which was released under Fender Rhodes label) was the Chroma. It was basically finished when ARP closed. But it wouldn't have saved them either.

Hardly, that was another one of those "misunderstood" products

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:34 pm

EvilDragon wrote:$2k for 16 voices is not expensive at all. Check the going prices for Alesis Andromeda, or Rhodes Chroma, which are the only other 16-voice analog polys out there (granted, VCOs)

Numanoid wrote:Beheringer is a bit like Casio when compared to DSI aint it?
Not really, they knocked it out of the park with DM12. Sounds great, price is great.

Sound is great, but build quality and support are also big factors. Both of which I daresay Behringer doesn't possess.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:36 pm

Build quality has improved considerably in the last years as far as Behr is concerned. Ask X32 mixing console users. Built like a tank, road-worthy.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:47 pm

cryophonik wrote:What if I told you guys that there just might be enough room in the market for both the REV2 and the DM12 to succeed?

Good advice, get both, or even more, money willing

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:04 am

damoog wrote:behringers deepmind will sink into oblivion eventually and the REV2 will only gain value

Will be interesting to see if this happens, have Behringer ever had a product that held its price second hand ?

NEOREV · Post by **NEOREV** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:01 am

They had me until Curtis filter

bftucker · Post by **bftucker** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:36 am

Not to knock DSI, as I own and enjoy several of their products but

Let me quote from GS, a Mr. Knoch, who doesn't own a DM12 but no doubt will soon:

Mr Knoch;12390388]Fantastic! I had a chance to visit Sweetwater today (it's only about an hour away) and played the Deepmind for a couple of hours. This is a really fun and great sounding little synth. The sound is really huge for its size. If I hadn't watched so many of the demos I really wouldn't have expected it. Great build quality. A couple of observations based on other posters comments. I've never really paid attention to the lifting of the back of the key when using aftertouch but today I watched and the DM is no different than the OB6 I played right next to it, they both lift at the back when using aftertouch. I can't speak to Pete's uneven keys but I looked today and when you look straight on there were very small variations in the key levels, you don't notice it from above when you look at them as you would when playing. The Moog Sub 37 was right above it and it was no different; very slight differences in height. I mentioned this to Daniel Fisher (the fellow in the Sweetwater DM 12 videos He was updating the DM firmware in the middle of my 2 hour plus demo) he said all the keyboards were like that. Then I went around looking at all the synths and, he was correct, most were the same. Roland was the best, but even the Jupiter 80 had some variations in height. The hanging note thing was weird but I found that I could hit the arp button once or twice and it unfroze the hanging note or arpeggio. Then Daniel updated it and no more hanging notes. How do you owners feel the sliders will stand up over time? Do you feel they will break or wear out? These seemed a little looser to me than I remember my Junos or Jupiters but I haven't had them for over a decade and my memory might be fading (see what I did there). Nothing wrong with knobs on my Prophet and Moog but I do like that this has the sliders.
But the sound... again, the sound is incredible. I got through less than half the presets in my 2 hour demo I was having so much fun tweaking and playing with it. Anyone who likes synths will love this thing for the sound (and the sliders if you like that sort of thing.

I am saving my pennies, trying to wait for the DM12 rack version!

Rev2 (Dave Smith)