Difference between these two near identical Superwave synths
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 446 posts since 14 Dec, 2014
The Professional and Trance-Pro by SuperWave are two fantastic synths. They are created with SynthEdit. I always wondered what the real difference was between these two. So I created two identical init saw patches (notably -> LP filter open, resonance off) and played 3 notes with them. Left (= white) the Professional, right (= red) the Trance-Pro.
The results are obvious. The Trance-Pro has more higher frequencies. Now I wonder why that is? The filters are identical and were open so don't play a role at all. So it must be at the oscillators. I heard something about the Gibbs effect. Does that mean the creator put an additional LP filter between the visible filter and the oscillator at the Professional? It is strange, because for low notes they are identical, see the first diagram. The difference becomes bigger at higher keys. So the hidden LP filter was fixed at a given frequency? Would love to know what is going on.
+2 octaves up
another +2 octaves up
I am not 100% sure the filters in both synths are identical. So I could try to sample them with the filters turned to fully open HP filters. Wonder if that would make a big difference.
The results are obvious. The Trance-Pro has more higher frequencies. Now I wonder why that is? The filters are identical and were open so don't play a role at all. So it must be at the oscillators. I heard something about the Gibbs effect. Does that mean the creator put an additional LP filter between the visible filter and the oscillator at the Professional? It is strange, because for low notes they are identical, see the first diagram. The difference becomes bigger at higher keys. So the hidden LP filter was fixed at a given frequency? Would love to know what is going on.
+2 octaves up
another +2 octaves up
I am not 100% sure the filters in both synths are identical. So I could try to sample them with the filters turned to fully open HP filters. Wonder if that would make a big difference.
Dúnedain
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- KVRAF
- 5815 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki
- Beware the Quoth
- 33109 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
...you blindly assume...Dúnedain wrote: The filters are identical and were open so don't play a role at all.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 446 posts since 14 Dec, 2014
... you blindly replied .... if you better read I suggest to record them using HP filters, at the end of my post.whyterabbyt wrote:...you blindly assume...Dúnedain wrote: The filters are identical and were open so don't play a role at all.
Also: the dev told me they were identical
Dúnedain
- Beware the Quoth
- 33109 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Which would blindly make no difference.Dúnedain wrote:... you blindly replied .... if you better read I suggest to record them using HP filters, at the end of my post.whyterabbyt wrote:...you blindly assume...Dúnedain wrote: The filters are identical and were open so don't play a role at all.
So why did you say otherwise?Also: the dev told me they were identical
I am not 100% sure the filters in both synths are identical.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
I used to own them as well, they are indeed identical except for the Gibbs effect turned on on the Professional. On the Trance-Pro you can also hear higher frequencies on very low octaves, while they are missing on the Professional (which is a good thing).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbs_phenomenon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbs_phenomenon
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 446 posts since 14 Dec, 2014
Yes I saw your extensive review on this site.fluffy_little_something wrote:I used to own them as well, they are indeed identical except for the Gibbs effect turned on on the Professional.
This is just partly true I think. If you look at the first diagram the harmonics are almost identical. Despite that: the Trance-pro plays every note one octave higher compared to the Professional, giving you the illusion it sounds more bright. So you should compensate for that. Despite that it does sound more bright if you go up the keyboard. This is obviously the Gibbs effect thing at the Professional. It clearly isn't there for low notes, see the first print screen. So what did Superwave do? Did they put an extra (hidden) filter element between the osc and the visible filter?On the Trance-Pro you can also hear higher frequencies on very low octaves, while they are missing on the Professional (which is a good thing).
Keep in mind this is a SynthEdit synth. So SuperWave is somewhat limited in what they can do.
Dúnedain
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
No, it has nothing to do with pitch. On the same very low notes there is no alien high-frequency content on the Professional.
I think the Gibbs thingy is just a switch in one of the SynthEdit modules. I remember the developer made a custom version of one of his other synths for me, where I asked him to turn the Gibbs thingy off as well.
I think the Gibbs thingy is just a switch in one of the SynthEdit modules. I remember the developer made a custom version of one of his other synths for me, where I asked him to turn the Gibbs thingy off as well.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 446 posts since 14 Dec, 2014
But then why do they look identical at the first freq plot ?fluffy_little_something wrote:No, it has nothing to do with pitch. On the same very low notes there is no alien high-frequency content on the Professional.
Wow great!I think the Gibbs thingy is just a switch in one of the SynthEdit modules. I remember the developer made a custom version of one of his other synths for me, where I asked him to turn the Gibbs thingy off as well.
Well I think I know enough. After all any synth should be able to create the Gibbs effect by doing a key follow for the filter.
Dúnedain
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
I don't know how you measured, but no, you can't produce the same brightness on the Professional, nor the warmer sound on the Trance-Pro, no matter how you set the controls.
But I no longer use those two synths, the sound is just not at the same level as that of good non-SE synths.
But I no longer use those two synths, the sound is just not at the same level as that of good non-SE synths.