(Rant) One reason I prefer even bad old movies to most good new movies...

[Aryaroman]

For the last few decades, perhaps starting from the end of 80s/early 90s, it seems scores have gotten more dramatic and sad and one-note. The strict use of minor scale has become so everyday, that, personally, it's just been numbing for the last few decades. I don't know if you share the feeling, but I feel this has to be brought up.

A perfect template, I feel composers today are (forced to?) working from, not just in trailers, but full movie scores, is a piece of music by composer Clint Mansell.
Clint Mansell's score for the movie Requiem for a Dream was released about 16 years ago and the dramatic track, that played in the finale, titled "Lux Aeterna" came to appear in so baflingly many trailers, from thriller to comedy to romantic drama, that even those who had not seen the original movie, could hum it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbS-Zhz31CA

In recent years, I've heard many soundtracks that sounded like Lux Aeterna, big blockbusters, AAA-videogames, small indie-productions, trailers... that epic, dramatic, sad sound is penetrating everything. Even pop music. Numbing.


Yet, in the last few decades, I have no memory of hearing anything like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2qovA_0Lnk

The music is sad. It's happy.
It's tense. It's relaxed.
It's serious. It's witty.

It's varied. There are tones of happiness, sadness, a wide range of human feelings. It's so many things, yet it doesn't force you into any of those, because the tones somehow balance each other.
The melody might not be memorable, it might not make you cry or jump out of happiness, but it provides an atmosphere and mood for the film and makes it a pleasure, an exciting journey.

Why have film scores and music in general gotten so dramatic, epic, intense and sad? Why does an anal fissure medicine-commercial require an epic and dramatic track? Why does that have to affect my emotions in a negative and depressing way?

[jancivil]

Well, I notice that so many flicks do that minor to death. I have to advise, VI in natural minor is not that dramatic after the 18th time of exactly this move. In the celli, an enormous cello section, you know.

One night I clicked from one movie channel to the next, I forget which films but they were not even the same genre and (for a few seconds) the music was totally identical. Same mix, same orchestration, same orchestra I suppose.

Digression, what I really like is lotta the late 60s, 70s dramatic scoring for TV dramas. Back in the day, the story was a lot of Schoenberg's students in So. Cal were scoring pictures. There's a westerns channel here that shows The Virginian all night, and sometimes I have it on to listen to the music. Some it is pretty outside. There's one composer for that show I want to know about, but this channel don't run credits. Composers today are more conservative, that 'modern' aesthetic no longer rules.

[jancivil]

There is this thick, bludgeoning orch sound today, not dynamic but just dull. Bunch of hacks. So when you mention Morricone, you bring up many issues, detail and subtlety and wit, variety, care to transparent/opaque textures.. but it's music for 'THIS' picture, it's not the same template as the other picture or every picture.

[chk071]

I thought this was about movies. Where should i rant about the crappy new films now?

[Aryaroman]

There is this thick, bludgeoning orch sound today, not dynamic but just dull. Bunch of hacks. So when you mention Morricone, you bring up many issues, detail and subtlety and wit, variety, care to transparent/opaque textures.. but it's music for 'THIS' picture, it's not the same template as the other picture or every picture.

It's not a template, because there wasn't such an encompassing template, like today we have Mansell, Zimmer, Two Steps From Hell, etc...
It's amazing work of Ennio, but the style of writing certainly echoes more of the past than the present, no? I can hear that kind-of flute playing in a lot of 60s and 70s films.

I also think that filmmakers have forgotten the golden rule of silence. The music loses it's effectiveness when it's filling every scene.
Even in the Bond-movies until the mid-80s Roger Moore-era, the fist fighting scenes were often scored only by the sound of silence (pun intended). Now almost every scene where something happens, they need to have a whole orchestra come in and do some heavy lifting. It starts to feel like a chore.

I thought this was about movies. Where should i rant about the crappy new films now?

This is about the bad modern trend of "heavy dramatic and epic" in film music. Off-topic-section, maybe?


On the other hand, we have Quentin Tarantino, who takes records out of his collection for temp music and they end up in the movie. Say what you will about his movies, but the man has excellent taste in music.
Tarantino's movies are probably the only ones in recent years, I've left the theater, with a smile.

When you think about it, he makes movies about violence, horrible people, plenty of blood and despair... and then you hear the Delfonics. Not heart-tugging, depressing sad strings or epic hybrid composition. The Delfonics. The violence might be hard to watch, but I suspect, that the Delfonics remind you of the horrible dissonance between the violence and yourself, keeping you distant from it, where a heavy, emotional music would draw you closer to the violence, eventually numbing you.


Well, not quite correct that one thing I said. Actually Tarantino has so far employed one original composer for a movie of his... Ennio Morricone.

[deastman]

I love Clint Mansell, but the soundtrack to Requiem for a Dream is one of my least favorites. And doesn't that dramatic orchestral business date back to Wagner or something? I do agree that movie scores have become very cookie cutter in recent years.

[Aryaroman]

I love Clint Mansell, but the soundtrack to Requiem for a Dream is one of my least favorites. And doesn't that dramatic orchestral business date back to Wagner or something? I do agree that movie scores have become very cookie cutter in recent years.

But if you listen to the Golden Age-scores, they're dramatic too, but never too dramatic or serious. There's also a drip of romanticism. I guess it's called melodramatic.

I find that today, most film music has become plain depressing and heavy. There's no romanticism. No grey tones.

[incubus]

I dunno. It's hard to say. To me, it REALLY depends. Some are dreadful, some are awesome.

[bstageboss]

It's something I've sort of known for over a decade, but this guy has explained it better than I could ever have;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcXsH88XlKM

[Terrafractyl]

I totally agree with the OP. I feel like music in film has become so formulaic that I can't remember the last time I was even mildly surprised by a musical choice in a Hollywood film. (except Q.T)
But that kinda fits with how I feel about big budget films in general, so I guess that kind of makes sense.

I also blame Mr Zimmer a bit. The music in the L.O.T.R's and the hobbit drove me insane!

[robotmonkey]

I totally agree with the OP. I feel like music in film has become so formulaic that I can't remember the last time I was even mildly surprised by a musical choice in a Hollywood film. (except Q.T)
But that kinda fits with how I feel about big budget films in general, so I guess that kind of makes sense.

I also blame Mr Zimmer a bit. The music in the L.O.T.R's and the hobbit drove me insane!

This!

I think there's been couple of threads about it here before. And I fully agree that modern "cinematic score" is mostly boring crap. One of the big problems with modern directors is that they use music to create false drama in places where story, acting and visuals fail to do it. So they just slap a boring generic orchestral score with pounding taiko drums on it and think that this makes a boring movie more tense. But it really does not. It just makes a boring movie with a loud score. Chris Nolan - the dumb person's smart director - is a prime example of this.

Another problem is that the use of orchestra, or sample libraries, in many majority of cases probably in today's scoring is really unimaginative and bland. Just compare today's scores with the 50-70 period and you see how imaginatively the orchestra was used in tonal terms and also how it was matched to what was happening on screen. For example in the Disney school of scoring usually the compositions were so detailed and well matched to the movement and emotions of the visuals.

[robotmonkey]

I dunno. It's hard to say. To me, it REALLY depends. Some are dreadful, some are awesome.

Can't even remember when I last heard an interesting and memorable score post 90's. One that would make me to seek it out for further listening. There's probably been couple, but really can't remember any at the moment.

[robotmonkey]

The music is sad. It's happy.
It's tense. It's relaxed.
It's serious. It's witty.

It's varied. There are tones of happiness, sadness, a wide range of human feelings. It's so many things, yet it doesn't force you into any of those, because the tones somehow balance each other.
The melody might not be memorable, it might not make you cry or jump out of happiness, but it provides an atmosphere and mood for the film and makes it a pleasure, an exciting journey.

Italian composers like Morricone, Piccione, Trovajoli, Ciprioni, Baclov, Umiliani, Ortolani and others wrote a lot of scores in varying styles ranging from bombastic orchestral scores to avant-garde electronic to funk-jazz. And they definitely could turn out some pretty good and memorable melodies. I think this was one of their great strengths.

Some more examples. A Morricone track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAXqIWdi_bk

Another Morricone track that has his very trademark sound (from one of the best crime series ever made):
https://youtu.be/wtng11JJaac?list=PLWQ0 ... jFzvgl9YOm

Armando Trovajoli:
https://youtu.be/OSerOkq5QDc?list=PLNj6 ... NQYqcdbR-v

Luis Baclov:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAXRVQI-U54

[bronxsound]

after reading the thread i would risk a theory that approach to theme tunes for films changed around 80's. possibly due to new technologies as mentioned in the vid, which contributed to cutting costs of music production but also due to change in finding additional income from merchandising. theme songs from top gun, beverly hills cop, ghostbusters etc were promoting whole soundtrack albums and artist performing on them.

btw mission impossible theme is from late 90's and i think it was fairly memorable

also twin peaks tune is top

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

It's something I've sort of known for over a decade, but this guy has explained it better than I could ever have;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcXsH88XlKM

Great vid!