Help me see the light....(IOW, I think this plugin stinks, change my mind)

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xoxos wrote:
richard dawkins introduced a very nice concept for discussing the cultural transference of ideas, eg. how and why we think what we think: memetics, and memes, as thought parallel to genetics, and genes. yet, if you ask someone what a "meme" is, it is a picture of a cat with some bold white letters.

you see, if you start to consider culture from a memetic perspective, especially once you are old and edified enough to experience various instances of industrial culture,

you will realise that the ideas people think in the west are somewhat limited in scope.

i mean, i come to this forum and go into this day after day year after year. ---> human attention is the. most. valuable. commodity in the universe. what you think, what we think transfers to what we do, how we respond, *everything that human culture touches* so influence over what we think is a supreme commodity.

this is the *music industry*

and what i have to deal with, is the fact that some people, are still challenged by the ideas that people who produce products may not have the highest form of integrity and are in it for profit instead of "making really great synthesizers".

well, i got news for you. it's not even about the money. the money is a tool as well. it's the carrot on the stick. the stick and the carrot belong to someone who is more concerned with how you see the world than what you buy, because a purchase happens once, but how you think affects how you purchase for a lifetime.

it's so simple, but since everyone is focused on the swaying carrot, we forget about the stick.

isn't there enough bullshit in society for you to think that something may be "up"? how ridiculous do thnigs have to get before you notice that people are laughing at you in your face, all the time, because you are more willing to beat on the guy who says there is a collusion than to confront the injustices that this institutional opportunism visits upon our entire species?


i'll make this clear: years ago, i thought that the advent of advertising and electronic media had accidentally made westerners mentally feeble, with short attention spans. but what happened to me (which i understand, you cannot accept as truth only because i say it) is that "the people who control the population" started to *let me know* and mess with me, which has continued for eleven years. i have to put up with this every day, everywhere i go, in the world, and online. i *know* that there are "social agencies" that exist purely to influence what "the common man" thinks. there is absolutely no question about it. they are even so confident that they can tell you in your face who they are and what they do and you will deny it, because you have, and your whole culture has, been trained to deny it. even the "anonymous" movements, the "voices of opposition and awareness" are controlled by these people. it's like "good cop, bad cop" - by presenting "all the sides of an issue" they control the dialogue.. you turn to the advocate, they are a *false advocate* - just like the "occupy" movement, or the "black lives matter" movement, you only hear about them because these people want you to feel that you can see all the sides of an issue. they are all pawns, designed to keep society ineffectual and divided against itself.

this is called *perception management* and it isn't anything new whatsoever.

meanwhile, west papua suffers. but you can buy synthesizers and lots of junk food and fill your head with a million kinds of boring nonsense. the important thing is, to believe that happiness is something you can buy. as long as you do that, you need everything to stay the way it is.
Not a critique of your ideas, but of your style: reduce the number of words you emphasize in quotes and stars. Longer paragraphs challenge this *short attention span* you speak of and the overuse of "quotes" for every third or fourth "word" makes the reading halting and less effective as communication. It is just slightly less distracting than reading all caps.

on the content: And while I admittedly haven't done my due diligence in investigating your claims of being led around by the brain by the media, your invoking Dawkins reminds me to look at these claims objectively and where there is no real evidence of a supreme power controlling, creating, and watching over us, not to create one.

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no mate i've been shot at (only for fun), assaulted, burglarised, stalked and harassed ("full night's sleep"?) property destroyed (spray paint, plants and trees killed) and.. more (not worth discussing here, too big a discussion). i have police reports, newspaper clippings, and now a *half hour documentary* (which will not be shared at kvr). go talk to stephen shellen or james walbert. remember mate i spent a year in a tent on the other side of the world after losing my house. i routinely forget things i've been through that would traumatise others for life and have discussed it in depth for over a decade here alone to sedulous derision. style isn't much of a concern really. because it's not about me, it's about us, and what we condone as culture. you worry about my style while the united states crushes public awareness and replaces it with the Unbelieveably Moronic Show. sorry i failed at making that the "engaging criteria". :)

me, i really do appreciate these threads where people admit that, in some way, the "institution of commerce as it is" has let them down, or disappointed them, or accomplished anything other than fulfilling all of their wildest dreams. amazing! it's a waste of time and energy to dogpile on individuals (it's kind of sad, some people are probably just really happy they did something official looking), the history of this industry is replete with romplers passed off as synths and minimal innovation (read: features actually worth adding to your gear). since 2002 i've been keeping track of the purported features of every piece of music technology i could but of course have increasingly reduced my studio to using my own software, which gradually becomes a moot state.. or maybe not so much, since authentic innovation is a rarity nowadays.

that's why i find myself getting yelled at when i become so insistent that a comb filter really is just a (any) delay! because integrity is immaterial when anything one references for the last decade bears the same superficiality. i had this neat idea that the music tech "industry" could be a great mechanism for increasing popular erudition instead of increasing personal finances. i hate that in 2016 i'm still talking about this. i hate that in 2016, when i talk about this, people talk about me instead of what i'm talking about. or even how i am talking it. great. papua merdeka. (understand, a global audience does not share your stylistic preferences... how best to say anything, ymmv - and remember, at least one of the moderators is waiting for any excuse to depict me as too volatile and shut my ass off this place the day i am ready to release a new plugin just for jolly so keep at it!)


i'll keep checking into this thread, in case it's original purpose finds more examples of... plugins that are useful where the application eluded some user (instead of discussion about crappiness). i have accrued a rather wide scope of end user experiences over the years.

i don't have much to contribute to it myself.... around 2007 i won a pricy suite of plugins by a celebrated developer (they are still around and still occasionally namedropped, but i'm not sure they've released anything since then, and their entire career seems to be based on this suite of plugins released more than a decade ago, someho establishing them as "A list developers"). i won't name them but the only dsp process in the entire bundle i considered keeping (and the most advanced) was a bare bones pitch shifter. "how can so many plugin enthusiasts tout these people as the forefront of vst development when their entire plugin suite offers no more dsp power than paul kellett's mda kit..?" they must have some really great friends. dunno and donwanna. the plugins are bloody awful. *tiphat*


sometimes i simply enjoy sharing my often relatively rigorous semantic proclivities :ud:
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.

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xoxos wrote:no mate i've been shot at (only for fun)

...


sometimes i simply enjoy sharing my often relatively rigorous semantic proclivities :ud:
Sounds like you've had an interesting life. As for synth technology, There is a part of me that also feels like every new synth is just a variation on something else if not a downright copy.

I wish I had the ability to create a synth because I know exactly what I want it to be able to do. To give you a frame of reference, imagine in physics you have a piece of metal. That piece of metal is made up of atoms. Those atoms are made up on protons, neutrons and electrons.

I want a synth that can take the protons, neutrons and electrons and turn them into a completely different type of particle. And from those particles, create a completely different kind of material.

Then, I would want the ability to link these materials in any way imaginable and rearrange the way they are played back by using modulators that haven't even been invented yet, because right now all modulators that I can think of are relatively linear, except for maybe a sample and hold LFO. But then they can't be controlled as far as the randomness. You are at the mercy of the programming. And as we know, nothing is completely random because the random generators are all based on algorithms.

I would probably want a sequencer that not only can manipulate the pitches but also manipulate the particles as well to give the patch a granular feel.

Then I would include every type of filter and FX imaginable including a totally variable filter and FX creator, meaning you can actually make your own FX.

Finally, the synth would be totally modular.

And then of course there are the hundreds of things I haven't even thought of that I'd also want to add.

That would be my ultimate synth. I have no idea if such a beast is even possible. Probably not or who knows. I'm not smart enough to figure that out. But I have a pretty good idea of what it is I want and a pretty good idea that I'd recognize it when I see it. Flexion looked like it would be somewhat close as far as the sound design goes but sadly it also looks like it's never coming out.

So, am I crazy or is such a synth doable?

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Aiynzahev wrote:Iris 2. It's on sale, I'm curious, but I remember finding it really limited. Especially as I have Alchemy, Harmor and Metasynth. OTOH it's really easy to use.
Very limited - my thoughts as well. I bought Iris 1 and haven't bothered to upgrade, not even at the recent price of 49 bucks. The biggest deficiency, IMO, was the crude drawing tools. If they had a air-brush-like means for painting the included or excluded areas with degrees of transparency, Iris would have been absolutely brilliant. But it misses by a mile.

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wagtunes -

my perspective on this i think is clear and tangible... a commercial implementation gravitates towards generality... you want functions your users can understand, functions your user can apply towards a wide range of applications, so the most "robust" solution is the generalised one.

say you are a developer and did implement all sorts of odd "new particlisations" ... then you have to wrap them in some kind of package and skin them and write a manual before anyone else can appreciate it. it becomes a lot of work.

this is one of the faults with the exclusivity we see in contemporary software development... few people... well, jeff mcclintock... make an effort to help *everyone* get involved with the nuts and bolts.... those who do... are often buried under a pile of artifical monkeys ("hey jeff i need a module that outputs oval sausages... yeah.. oval sausages mate, that's the ticket.. make sure you do that or you are not a good developer..") and otherwise silently dissuaded until they gradually bow out of the game. howe many of the old skool SE dev crowd are still around bangin it?

but by making the field more exclusive, and reduced validation, we miss out on all the crappy little junky things that do your "different particles". aamof, the synth i've got in beta at this moment was developed with this as one of the foremost points...

....from the manual copy i decided to leave out..
all parts of this method were selected to suit the application instead of generalised synthesis, and may have been quite different if built by another developer or on another day. it exemplifies the kind of product those literate in audio synthesis would produce if their work was to meet an individual, specific task instead of appeal to the vagaries of the marketplace and generalised application. so, in a way, it is an artifact of a culture that is not represented in the contemporary west.


imagine how glorious humanity would be if we practiced anything close to the cooperative synergy that nutcases like i champion when we're not getting our asses handed to us by People Concerned With Finance. ..true, eg. 32 bit floating point is 32 bit floats but there is a *lot* of neato stuff that you can do by "fiddling about like a fool" without your "respectable commercial entrant" hat on.

imo in a more cooperative, less profit motivated world, the personal journey through audio dsp may be briefer, as we expand our scope of consideration to more than "neat sounding music" in dsp. but, lfo through a granulator, you'd hook it up and try it and have ten minutes of interesting observations that would never make it into a plug or recording or any form of material commodity. we would instead have rich intellects.

i'd say think of the children, but, my enemies would say that about me as well :p "easiest thing is to accuse the person of the opposite.. old lady takes care of cats.. must be a cat molester.." - w.s. burroughs


here this -
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6594078
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.

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xoxos wrote:wagtunes -

my perspective on this i think is clear and tangible... a commercial implementation gravitates towards generality... you want functions your users can understand, functions your user can apply towards a wide range of applications, so the most "robust" solution is the generalised one.

say you are a developer and did implement all sorts of odd "new particlisations" ... then you have to wrap them in some kind of package and skin them and write a manual before anyone else can appreciate it. it becomes a lot of work.

this is one of the faults with the exclusivity we see in contemporary software development... few people... well, jeff mcclintock... make an effort to help *everyone* get involved with the nuts and bolts.... those who do... are often buried under a pile of artifical monkeys ("hey jeff i need a module that outputs oval sausages... yeah.. oval sausages mate, that's the ticket.. make sure you do that or you are not a good developer..") and otherwise silently dissuaded until they gradually bow out of the game. howe many of the old skool SE dev crowd are still around bangin it?

but by making the field more exclusive, and reduced validation, we miss out on all the crappy little junky things that do your "different particles". aamof, the synth i've got in beta at this moment was developed with this as one of the foremost points...

....from the manual copy i decided to leave out..
all parts of this method were selected to suit the application instead of generalised synthesis, and may have been quite different if built by another developer or on another day. it exemplifies the kind of product those literate in audio synthesis would produce if their work was to meet an individual, specific task instead of appeal to the vagaries of the marketplace and generalised application. so, in a way, it is an artifact of a culture that is not represented in the contemporary west.


imagine how glorious humanity would be if we practiced anything close to the cooperative synergy that nutcases like i champion when we're not getting our asses handed to us by People Concerned With Finance. ..true, eg. 32 bit floating point is 32 bit floats but there is a *lot* of neato stuff that you can do by "fiddling about like a fool" without your "respectable commercial entrant" hat on.

imo in a more cooperative, less profit motivated world, the personal journey through audio dsp may be briefer, as we expand our scope of consideration to more than "neat sounding music" in dsp. but, lfo through a granulator, you'd hook it up and try it and have ten minutes of interesting observations that would never make it into a plug or recording or any form of material commodity. we would instead have rich intellects.

i'd say think of the children, but, my enemies would say that about me as well :p "easiest thing is to accuse the person of the opposite.. old lady takes care of cats.. must be a cat molester.." - w.s. burroughs


here this -
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6594078
So in other words, my synth ain't ever gonna happen, eh?

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prolly within a couple months after you decide to start :)

once you get going, it can seriously take lunchtime to turn an idea into a vst in code.

this is just the best -
http://xoxos.net/sem/schildt.zip
('c++ for beginners' free pdf distribution)

schildt's clarity and brevity ... thank bloody god for schildt.
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.

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xoxos wrote:prolly within a couple months after you decide to start :)

once you get going, it can seriously take lunchtime to turn an idea into a vst in code.

this is just the best -
http://xoxos.net/sem/schildt.zip
('c++ for beginners' free pdf distribution)

schildt's clarity and brevity ... thank bloody god for schildt.
Thanks, but I'm no programmer and wouldn't even know where to start. DSP programming is not like writing software to do medical billing, which I did back in the 90s.

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xoxos wrote: and this in turn is peanuts compared to having a culture that conforms to desired responsivity...
I wish I could disagree with you and say it isn't so shit, but it is, and worse. "Them" isn't a singular group of controllers, even though there are those more keen on benefiting from this "culture", it's a web we have spun around us for the past 200 years. We've unwittingly constructed an institution defying generations, powerful beyond individuals. Seriously no man or group of men is smart enough to purposefully design a system like this.

Homo Sapiens died long ago. I don't know what we are, but wise we are not. Maybe the generations after the collapse do better.

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wagtunes wrote: Thanks, but I'm no programmer and wouldn't even know where to start. DSP programming is not like writing software to do medical billing, which I did back in the 90s.
amitabha. i'm sure dsp programming is much easier ;) i recently posted the c++ for the guts of fauna vst in a thread.. there are maybe five unique statements which are repeated a few times for each stage of the kelly lochbaum tract. anyone who kind of got the gist of geometry enough to read a refresher on sine and cosine can handle almost all of the concepts of modern methods. i'd say c++ itself is about as complicated as learning to drive a car, i use about a dozen commands (more c the way i use it).

yeah jon i used to think like that and probably still would :) it's like, if you're going to stalk someone, do it in a womble costume. if they talk, people only laugh about the wombles. then if they want to be an effective truth teller, they have to keep part of the truth to themselves, which introduces conflict and deception.
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.

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xoxos wrote: i'd say c++ itself is about as complicated as learning to drive a car, i use about a dozen commands (more c the way i use it).
Yeah, no, that's not how you use C++. It's way more complex than that. For a beginner, I'd say it takes about a year of full time practice to learn to use the language competently. Not as long as learning a musical instrument, but still pretty long. And to make anything that sounds a little better than very basic 8 bit synths, you need a little more knowledge than simple trigonometry.

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Are we still discussing hopeful hidden goodies in our personally owned and judged crappy plugins?

If so, when I first tripped into making electronic music, I jumped in by purchasing a DAW and 2 synthesizer plugins.

Synthmaster: Does not belong in this thread, in my humble opinion. I seriously fall deeper in love with this complicated (in a good way) being of a virtual instrument with every use.

And Enzyme: :oops: :help: :bang:

I mean, it does produce sound... but ... I'd rather drop a sample on a track and place my own effects chains.

However, I hold on to it in case I live in a different plane of existence from the people who enjoy it and one day I'll fall off of my plane and onto theirs.

If the devs of Enzyme read this, please note that I probably do live on my own plane of existence and your product may indeed be mind blowingly awesomesauce! However, in this world of me so far, I wouldn't put that sauce on anything. :scared:

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powermat wrote:Are we still discussing hopeful hidden goodies in our personally owned and judged crappy plugins?
We are.

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lolilol1975 wrote:
xoxos wrote: i'd say c++ itself is about as complicated as learning to drive a car, i use about a dozen commands (more c the way i use it).
Yeah, no, that's not how you use C++. It's way more complex than that. For a beginner, I'd say it takes about a year of full time practice to learn to use the language competently. Not as long as learning a musical instrument, but still pretty long. And to make anything that sounds a little better than very basic 8 bit synths, you need a little more knowledge than simple trigonometry.
Yeah, fully agreed. And trigonometry isn't simple. DSP is heavy math. More importantly, it's heavy mental math.

It takes a specific neurological functionality that only a subset of the populous has learned to do or is capable of doing. There are people with neurological makeups that preclude the ability to learn programming beyond a simplistic level. I'm one of them; I get the concepts but I can't process the low-level abstract math. The most able programmers don't even realize this problem is possible and they just do the work, believing "it's only disciplined thinking". This leads into presuming things about other people's abilities, judging them for not living up to those presumptions, and problems dealing with people. Your asset is my disability, and quite literally so.

Presuming a highly technical skill is possible for anyone to learn is presuming that you are the model for humanity. That's never a correct assumption. Yes, many people can learn most any skill. To do heavy logic processing on arbitrary symbols (putting meaning to the symbols in math and programming in order to think yourself through them), however, takes something less common.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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1) who makes the plugins around here?

2) my "two months" figure is like, you read the first ten pages on the toilet in a month, take a couple weeks off kinda stuff. anyone can do it. anyone can also say it can't be done.
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.

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