If I'm completely ITB, is an audio interface truly needed?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 114 posts since 8 Oct, 2016
A quick search reveals inconclusive answers; sorry.
I've got a Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 8in/6out audio interface (got it when I was using hardware pieces) and I am not sure if I need to bother powering it up and using it with Ableton/Push 2.
I'm using a 2015 Macbook Pro, so I am not sure how good the internal core audio chipset is. I've just been using the headphone port for my studio headphones; I don't use monitors at all.
Am I missing out on audio quality or anything else if I don't use the interface?
Thanks!
I've got a Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 8in/6out audio interface (got it when I was using hardware pieces) and I am not sure if I need to bother powering it up and using it with Ableton/Push 2.
I'm using a 2015 Macbook Pro, so I am not sure how good the internal core audio chipset is. I've just been using the headphone port for my studio headphones; I don't use monitors at all.
Am I missing out on audio quality or anything else if I don't use the interface?
Thanks!
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thecontrolcentre thecontrolcentre https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=76240
- KVRAF
- 35098 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny
Why don't you try it and decide for yourself? The interface should sound better, and be more accurate. Are your headphones good quality?
- KVRAF
- 14943 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
Yes. The quality of built in sound is never very good. Also, they normally let you work at lower latencies.
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- KVRian
- 783 posts since 18 Apr, 2011
haha.. Ok sorry to creat more uncertainty, but I'm going to say.. umm not really.
Here's why. First of all, macbook's usually have pretty good sound quality from my experience. Compared to some pc's I've messed with that had pretty awful sound quality. Also, the core audio stuff is usually pretty damn good.
secondly, yes.. a new interface will be a little better, but probably like .1% better. If you were recording audio, it would be a different story. But since you are working ITB, I don't think it's going to make a difference.
Even if you could spot the difference in sound, which is doubtful, I doubt even more that it would effect your ability to craft a good mix at all. And that's because frequency masking and dynamic issues are still going to be just as noticeable.
First of all you would need a pretty decent monitoring situation to actuallly be able to notice the difference. If you had some real high end stuff, you might be able to tell a difference.
just my two cents.
Here's why. First of all, macbook's usually have pretty good sound quality from my experience. Compared to some pc's I've messed with that had pretty awful sound quality. Also, the core audio stuff is usually pretty damn good.
secondly, yes.. a new interface will be a little better, but probably like .1% better. If you were recording audio, it would be a different story. But since you are working ITB, I don't think it's going to make a difference.
Even if you could spot the difference in sound, which is doubtful, I doubt even more that it would effect your ability to craft a good mix at all. And that's because frequency masking and dynamic issues are still going to be just as noticeable.
First of all you would need a pretty decent monitoring situation to actuallly be able to notice the difference. If you had some real high end stuff, you might be able to tell a difference.
just my two cents.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 114 posts since 8 Oct, 2016
thecontrolcentre wrote:Why don't you try it and decide for yourself? The interface should sound better, and be more accurate. Are your headphones good quality?
My headphones aren't super high end - AKG K240, which are pretty basic studio headphones, I'd guess.
Not sure I noticed any better latency, but the headphone preamp in the focusrite is better than plugging in directly to the Macbook. I just didn't know if the audio interface would take any load off the computer for DSP sorts of stuff.
- KVRAF
- 4764 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit
AKG K240 are high-impedance cans (55Ω) and driving them usually requires more power than most consumer audio headphone outs provide (I too have a MBP and K240s).
Because your interface sends more power to the coils than the MBP sends to its headphone out, it will make the diaphragms start and stop faster and thus enable you to hear more of the detail in your audio.
The interface is just between your computer and external I/O. If your phones are your only external (e.g. no monitors) then you could only need a headphone amp.
Because your interface sends more power to the coils than the MBP sends to its headphone out, it will make the diaphragms start and stop faster and thus enable you to hear more of the detail in your audio.
The interface is just between your computer and external I/O. If your phones are your only external (e.g. no monitors) then you could only need a headphone amp.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 114 posts since 8 Oct, 2016
Thanks for the insight, Michael. I had already considered buying a USB headphone amp anyhow, so this makes it a little easier.Michael L wrote:AKG K240 are high-impedance cans (55Ω) and driving them usually requires more power than most consumer audio headphone outs provide (I too have a MBP and K240s).
Because your interface sends more power to the coils than the MBP sends to its headphone out, it will make the diaphragms start and stop faster and thus enable you to hear more of the detail in your audio.
The interface is just between your computer and external I/O. If your phones are your only external (e.g. no monitors) then you could only need a headphone amp.
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- KVRian
- 783 posts since 18 Apr, 2011
hadn't thought about the headphone impedance. That's a good point.
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- KVRer
- 24 posts since 15 Jun, 2012
If you're on a Mac, and you're only going to be monitoring on headphones, then I think you're fine with without the interface for now, but 'll bet you'll end up needing it.
Apple's native Core Audio driver is pretty awesome for audio production, and was designed with audio in mind. On a recent MacBook you can get great, low latency performance, no problem. Core Audio is also used on iOS, I believe, and iOS is a good platform for music production, while Android was not designed with low audio latency in mind and has so far not been a good audio platform. Similarly, built-in Windows drivers are designed for basic stuff or gaming, and are no good for audio. On Windows you need to install an ASIO driver of some sort for audio, but there are still some problems: if you want to work without an interface you'll need a third-party app called ASIO4ALL, which is good, but if you want to, say, work in Ableton and watch a YouTube video at the same time, it won't work. Ableton will get exclusive control over the audio, and YouTube won't work. Core Audio gets this right from the start, and everything works great, just like it would if you were using a dedicated interface. And that's why it makes some difference what platform you're working on. It's a little harder to get by without an interface on Windows, though I still do it all the time.
Other issue: how are you going to monitor your work? Your MacBook has one headphone jack. You can do a lot of work with a good set of headphones but eventually you will want a set of monitors. For one thing, listening through headphones causes ear fatigue a lot faster than using monitors, and you need to be careful with your levels not to damage your ears. Monitors are less tempting to crack up as often and don't pound the waves directly into into ear canals. Another huge issue is that headphones don't reproduce much low end frequencies compared to a good set of monitors. One very common mistake is to mix with headphones and constantly go, "where's the f**king bass?!" *Crank fader* Then you finish up and go show your friend who has a decent system your new awesome SoundCloud track, and it sounds like a bass-y wad of shit. Not that I've done that a lot of times. So another advantage of a dedicated interface is plain and simple: outputs for monitoring. Not to mention you'll need to be able to connect to a mixer if you want to play your music live.
You already said you're totally ITB so we'll leave that alone, but someday you might want to record something.
Personally, I work on the couch, on Windows, with no interface, all the time because it's quick and easy. But when I'm ready to really get to work on something, I usually move to my desk and interface, so I can monitor properly, record, and open other audio apps if I need to. If there's something else you really, really need, you could take back the interface for now and put the money on something else, but it probably won't be long before you want it again.
Apple's native Core Audio driver is pretty awesome for audio production, and was designed with audio in mind. On a recent MacBook you can get great, low latency performance, no problem. Core Audio is also used on iOS, I believe, and iOS is a good platform for music production, while Android was not designed with low audio latency in mind and has so far not been a good audio platform. Similarly, built-in Windows drivers are designed for basic stuff or gaming, and are no good for audio. On Windows you need to install an ASIO driver of some sort for audio, but there are still some problems: if you want to work without an interface you'll need a third-party app called ASIO4ALL, which is good, but if you want to, say, work in Ableton and watch a YouTube video at the same time, it won't work. Ableton will get exclusive control over the audio, and YouTube won't work. Core Audio gets this right from the start, and everything works great, just like it would if you were using a dedicated interface. And that's why it makes some difference what platform you're working on. It's a little harder to get by without an interface on Windows, though I still do it all the time.
Other issue: how are you going to monitor your work? Your MacBook has one headphone jack. You can do a lot of work with a good set of headphones but eventually you will want a set of monitors. For one thing, listening through headphones causes ear fatigue a lot faster than using monitors, and you need to be careful with your levels not to damage your ears. Monitors are less tempting to crack up as often and don't pound the waves directly into into ear canals. Another huge issue is that headphones don't reproduce much low end frequencies compared to a good set of monitors. One very common mistake is to mix with headphones and constantly go, "where's the f**king bass?!" *Crank fader* Then you finish up and go show your friend who has a decent system your new awesome SoundCloud track, and it sounds like a bass-y wad of shit. Not that I've done that a lot of times. So another advantage of a dedicated interface is plain and simple: outputs for monitoring. Not to mention you'll need to be able to connect to a mixer if you want to play your music live.
You already said you're totally ITB so we'll leave that alone, but someday you might want to record something.
Personally, I work on the couch, on Windows, with no interface, all the time because it's quick and easy. But when I'm ready to really get to work on something, I usually move to my desk and interface, so I can monitor properly, record, and open other audio apps if I need to. If there's something else you really, really need, you could take back the interface for now and put the money on something else, but it probably won't be long before you want it again.
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- KVRAF
- 4764 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit
A useful accessory is a plugin like Tonebooster's Isone that emulates flat-response studio monitors in an ideal listening room, while using headphones.
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- KVRAF
- 3508 posts since 12 May, 2011
Headphones still won't push air around like a good set of speakers.Michael L wrote:A useful accessory is a plugin like Tonebooster's Isone that emulates flat-response studio monitors in an ideal listening room, while using headphones.
- KVRAF
- 4764 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from The End of The World as We Knowit
Totally true but the OP said he doesn't use monitors at all so... something like Isone will help reduce the risk of mixing on phones, as snugglepuff pointed out.Ayorinde wrote:Headphones still won't push air around like a good set of speakers.
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- KVRAF
- 8180 posts since 22 Sep, 2008 from Windsor. UK
With only headphones, Core Audio on a Macbook is fine.
I use my Macbook with a pair of ATH-M50s and the sound quality is great.
On my PC I use my RME FF400 to drive my monitors.
Core Audio offers good latencies, not as good as my RME, but most soundcards don't either!
I use my Macbook with a pair of ATH-M50s and the sound quality is great.
On my PC I use my RME FF400 to drive my monitors.
Core Audio offers good latencies, not as good as my RME, but most soundcards don't either!
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- KVRAF
- 6113 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America
Maybe the digital out. My MacBook Pro 5,5 has electronics noise in the analog output. Same crap I get from a pro-level FireWire audio device's analog output on my PC.stillshaded wrote:First of all, macbook's usually have pretty good sound quality from my experience.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 114 posts since 8 Oct, 2016
Good post; I appreciate it.
I planned on keeping my audio interface, but was wondering if I needed to connect and fire up every time I wanted to mess around with stuff on the couch or something. It's a firewire interface, so it's not hot-pluggable. So every time I connect/disconnect, I shut down and start up again, which is cumbersome. Sometimes I just want to grab my laptop, my Push 2 and my headphones and get right to it.
I planned on keeping my audio interface, but was wondering if I needed to connect and fire up every time I wanted to mess around with stuff on the couch or something. It's a firewire interface, so it's not hot-pluggable. So every time I connect/disconnect, I shut down and start up again, which is cumbersome. Sometimes I just want to grab my laptop, my Push 2 and my headphones and get right to it.
snugglepuff wrote:If you're on a Mac, and you're only going to be monitoring on headphones, then I think you're fine with without the interface for now, but 'll bet you'll end up needing it.
Apple's native Core Audio driver is pretty awesome for audio production, and was designed with audio in mind. On a recent MacBook you can get great, low latency performance, no problem. Core Audio is also used on iOS, I believe, and iOS is a good platform for music production, while Android was not designed with low audio latency in mind and has so far not been a good audio platform. Similarly, built-in Windows drivers are designed for basic stuff or gaming, and are no good for audio. On Windows you need to install an ASIO driver of some sort for audio, but there are still some problems: if you want to work without an interface you'll need a third-party app called ASIO4ALL, which is good, but if you want to, say, work in Ableton and watch a YouTube video at the same time, it won't work. Ableton will get exclusive control over the audio, and YouTube won't work. Core Audio gets this right from the start, and everything works great, just like it would if you were using a dedicated interface. And that's why it makes some difference what platform you're working on. It's a little harder to get by without an interface on Windows, though I still do it all the time.
Other issue: how are you going to monitor your work? Your MacBook has one headphone jack. You can do a lot of work with a good set of headphones but eventually you will want a set of monitors. For one thing, listening through headphones causes ear fatigue a lot faster than using monitors, and you need to be careful with your levels not to damage your ears. Monitors are less tempting to crack up as often and don't pound the waves directly into into ear canals. Another huge issue is that headphones don't reproduce much low end frequencies compared to a good set of monitors. One very common mistake is to mix with headphones and constantly go, "where's the f**king bass?!" *Crank fader* Then you finish up and go show your friend who has a decent system your new awesome SoundCloud track, and it sounds like a bass-y wad of shit. Not that I've done that a lot of times. So another advantage of a dedicated interface is plain and simple: outputs for monitoring. Not to mention you'll need to be able to connect to a mixer if you want to play your music live.
You already said you're totally ITB so we'll leave that alone, but someday you might want to record something.
Personally, I work on the couch, on Windows, with no interface, all the time because it's quick and easy. But when I'm ready to really get to work on something, I usually move to my desk and interface, so I can monitor properly, record, and open other audio apps if I need to. If there's something else you really, really need, you could take back the interface for now and put the money on something else, but it probably won't be long before you want it again.