Scale selection to begin!

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
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i admit i have trouble when starting a new music project........ what scale,what root note should i choose?! so my music should sound special,not end up "chessy pop" sounding

i'm starting instrumental music project with alots of melody,variety genres so

so i need your help

Scales that sound "heroic and battle spirit"
Scales that sound "strong passion and desire"
Scales that sound "positive but serious,not childlish"
Scales that sound "mystery, dangerous"


thank you!
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KoolKool wrote:what scale,what root note should i choose?! so my music should sound special
If you want to know what's "special": that's the opposite of "common".
According to this analysis a whopping 26% is in C or Am, and only 3% in B or Abm which is just one semitone down. Does transposing a semitone down make much difference to the emotional load? Try it, draw your own conclusion...
KoolKool wrote:Scales that sound "heroic and battle spirit"
Scales that sound "strong passion and desire"
Scales that sound "positive but serious,not childlish"
Scales that sound "mystery, dangerous"
I'm of the opinion the root note and scale don't matter for that, but it's the melody, chord progression and arrangement that gives it all these attributes. I'm convinced (totally opposed to what's usually taught) you can write happy songs in minor and sad songs in major keys.

But other people feel differently about that: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=musical+scales+and+emotions
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KoolKool wrote:i admit i have trouble when starting a new music project........ what scale,what root note should i choose?! so my music should sound special,not end up "chessy pop" sounding

i'm starting instrumental music project with alots of melody,variety genres so

so i need your help

Scales that sound "heroic and battle spirit"
Scales that sound "strong passion and desire"
Scales that sound "positive but serious,not childlish"
Scales that sound "mystery, dangerous"

thank you!
Songs are generally in either Major or Minor, and within those 2 categories you're free to mix & match. For instance, minor key songs very often switch very fast between minor natural, harmonic and melodic to match with the chords, or overlay those over pentatonic and blues scales (especially on the bassline). In fact, in bluesy songs, you can even mix & match both Major and Minor scales.

Major:
Major (C D E F G A B)
Major pentatonic (C D E G A)
Major blues (C D Eb E G A)
"Mixolydian mode" (C D E F G A Bb)
"Lydian mode" (C D E F# G A B)

Minor:
Minor natural (C D Eb F G Ab Bb)
Minor harmonic (C D Eb F G Ab B)
Minor melodic (C D Eb F G A B)
Minor pentatonic (C Eb F G Bb)
Minor blues (C Eb F F# G Bb)
"Dorian mode" (C D Eb F G A Bb)
"Phrygian mode" (C Db Eb F G Ab Bb)
"Gypsy scales" (C Db E F G Ab Bb/B, C D Eb F# G Ab Bb/B)

For root note, you can pick anything you like and that puts the instruments in the range you want. Sounds too low in C? Try D, or F, or G... Keys like C, F, G, D minor and A minor are popular because they have few sharps/flats and are easy to play.

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Great responses MB

To add.
What makes a song emotive is the emotion one puts into the performance. This has to do with time, timing, tempo, dynamics and note articulation. It's not just about going through the motions of playing but imbuing the part much like an actor embracing the role.
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KoolKool wrote:i admit i have trouble when starting a new music project........ what scale,what root note should i choose?! so my music should sound special,not end up "chessy pop" sounding

i'm starting instrumental music project with alots of melody,variety genres so

so i need your help

Scales that sound "heroic and battle spirit"
Scales that sound "strong passion and desire"
Scales that sound "positive but serious,not childlish"
Scales that sound "mystery, dangerous"


thank you!
I think it's a mistake to approach it like this. I see too many people on this forum talking about scales like it's so important to always choose the right semi-exotic scale. You can achieve all those things you listed with a simple natural minor scale. A more important thing concerning scales is actually to know when to step out of your scale or modify something. So you wouldn't say "oh I know I'm gonna make an entire thing in double harmonic/neapolitan minor/whole tone scale and see what mood that gives me".

The root note doesn't matter much except for sounds (for instance you might have a deep bass sound that sounds better at D than F) or aspects specific to the instruments involved, such as their range, what is more natural for them to play, how they sound...
Developer of Photosounder (a spectral editor/synth), SplineEQ and Spiral

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to me
Lydian = post positive event (intermediate)....ie something just happend and it was good like someone completed some intermediate event....its not the climactic event, it's like completing the first test out of many to come....so you sort of know the future, you just have to stay the course....

Mixolydian = pre positive event......ie...you are on some mission to complete some quest, but there is some unknown aspect about it...this important difference to lydian, in lydian you "know" the future holds...mixo you dont quite know what it holds, it holds uncertainty, but you are working hard towards that end...ie. you are planting crops in the spring, and you are working really hard to harvest them, but the winter looms in the distance, you are working hard, but there is also that uncertainty, like will there be enough crops?

Aeolian = post NEGATIVE event(macro).....some negative event has taken place and now you are dealing with it...ie, you realized there was JUST enough crops to make through the winter, and now the winter has begun...or some war was fought and the "bad guys" won...and now you are dealing with it....

Locrian = some imminently impending very BAD event(micro)....or the event has already just taken place...or its currently taking place...this is very immediate and known that a bad event will most likely just about to happen or is in the act of happening (contrast that with mixolydian where there is alot of mystery, the unknown, but defintely probably hopefully something good will happen)
...this is mode is not very evocative....its got alot of certainty....ie. a thief is about to mug someone, and then the struggle happens

Phrygian = less immediate than Locrian but same feeling of impending negative event...like the troops of some evil army are gathering on the hills to start their invasion....this is a more macroscopic event whereas locrian is more microscopic, this is a more generalized larger sense of something ominous and certain, a large struggle, yet there is still a sense of unknown...this is the lead up to an event that will have casualties, but the actual outcome is not necessarily known

Dorian = my fave mode right now, this signifies some heroic struggle, a large scale broad event, that is currently taking place, it's outcome is not known for sure, but it is expected that our heroes will find a way to persevere, there are alot of variables at play, and there will be struggles, but there is a underlying shred of optimism...ie. the 6 and 7 leading to the 8 create that optimism. (listen to No Quarter)

Ionian = unbridled optimism, the ship, leaves the shore, you are sailing out into the unknown but you are filled with excitement and ready for whatever is out there, definite sense of mystery, the unknown, but not looking at the unknown with any negativity, there is no expectation of any future specific event, it's all about the departure, the act of change and moving into some new realm with certainty that it will be different than the current state...this mode i think gets a bad rap because it is th "major" mode the "happy" mode...but if you just close your eyes, and play within it....not leaving the root ever, play the root bass and then play around the center above it, really for a while, and you will hear that it isnt really about "happiness"....its more about optimism...and the desire for mystery and excitment....this mode is far more mysterious than the uninitiated are led to believe

[these are just the modes in isolation, obviously it gets more complex when you introduce different harmony]
Sincerely,
Zethus, twin son of Zeus

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One should never forget the power of the Harmonic Minor and Melodic Minor scales bring to the table.

If you favor the Dorian Mode the Melodic minor is a popular alternative in Jazz which is why it is sometimes referred to as the Jazz minor scale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_minor_scale

Erstwhile the Harmonic minor is popular in passionate and often volatile compositions and is a favorite of Yngwie Malmsteen It is also considered very "middle eastern' sounding.
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tapper mike wrote:Erstwhile the Harmonic minor is popular in passionate and often volatile compositions and is a favorite of Yngwie Malmsteen It is also considered very "middle eastern' sounding.
The double harmonic perhaps even more so ;) plus it's symmetrical around the root which is interesting.
Developer of Photosounder (a spectral editor/synth), SplineEQ and Spiral

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tapper mike wrote:One should never forget the power of the Harmonic Minor and Melodic Minor scales bring to the table.

If you favor the Dorian Mode the Melodic minor is a popular alternative in Jazz which is why it is sometimes referred to as the Jazz minor scale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_minor_scale

Erstwhile the Harmonic minor is popular in passionate and often volatile compositions and is a favorite of Yngwie Malmsteen It is also considered very "middle eastern' sounding.
cool, what is this scale

1 2 b3 3 5 b6 6 8, but descending you can add a minor 7th
Sincerely,
Zethus, twin son of Zeus

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zethus909 wrote:cool, what is this scale

1 2 b3 3 5 b6 6 8, but descending you can add a minor 7th
That's a pretty crazy scale. When I want to know what a scale is I turn it to semitones from the root and look for it there http://www.sciencemedianetwork.org/wiki ... arp/scales

Yours would be written 0, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 12, there's nothing even remotely close, perhaps because there are very few scales where you have 3 adjacent pitch classes in a row, let alone twice. For instance no scale has 2, 3, 4 (what you call 2 b3 3) and only bebop scales have 7, 8, 9 (5 b6 6), and they're octatonic.
Developer of Photosounder (a spectral editor/synth), SplineEQ and Spiral

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That scale (0, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 12) is 'called' a Chromatic Hypodorian. The piano encyclopedia says:

The Chromatic Hypodorian scale contains both a major and minor third, making it a 'dual' scale. This means that the scale can be used to both create melancholic or cheerful music depending on which notes you use. The Chromatic Hypodorian is usually used for improvising ethnic music and can be a great addition for your blues piano licks.

A_SN said pretty much the same. For more equally vital information, such as its relationship to the Prometheus Neapolitan scale, see:
http://pianoencyclopedia.com/scales/chr ... orian.html
d o n 't
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m o r e

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Great info'! Thanks.
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Michael L wrote:That scale (0, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 12) is called a Chromatic Hypodorian. The piano encyclopedia says:

The Chromatic Hypodorian scale contains both a major and minor third, making it a 'dual' scale. This means that the scale can be used to both create melancholic or cheerful music depending on which notes you use. The Chromatic Hypodorian is usually used for improvising ethnic music and can be a great addition for your blues piano licks.

For how to play it:
http://pianoencyclopedia.com/scales/chr ... orian.html
Wow it's an actual thing! I thought I knew but I had no idea. Is there a better more complete place to find all the named scales with a number notation (or something else that can be adapted into that) somewhere? I could use that.

Edit: this looks pretty complete I guess? http://www.huygens-fokker.org/docs/modename.html
Last edited by A_SN on Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Developer of Photosounder (a spectral editor/synth), SplineEQ and Spiral

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A_SN wrote:Is there a better more complete place to find all the named scales with a number notation
I use Scale Suggestor, a $3 Mac app:
https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/scale-s ... 9432?mt=12
It produces a textfile with the names of that scale and related ones using number notation only, plus a midi file. It was developed by kvr member ValliSoftware. It has similar results to that Scala list, but its quite convenient.
d o n 't
w a n t
m o r e

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yea its my bluesy scale...it's just the scale i like for bluesy...start on the 6(9 if we are using semi tones) for the minor mode. love this scale for blues. yea 0 2 3 4 7 8 9 (10) 12

chromatic hypodorian cool, someone had to name it. lol

i like using semitones like +2 etc for intervals, but it gets confusing when you are trying to talk about music, you start calling the 6 the 9...and 3 the 4, 4 the 5, 5 the 7...and so the confusions starts :party:

anyone else have any interesting scale they like and when they use it?
Sincerely,
Zethus, twin son of Zeus

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