The Issue of Famous Instruments

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
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There's is something I've had on my mind for quite a long time now, and that's the problem that comes up when a virtual instrument becomes super famous.

Take Massive and Serum, these have to be two of the most iconic soft-synths in electronic music, and because of their reputation, you can easily find a plethora of presets, tutorials, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I also think of these as being great pieces of software, but what about some of the other options? Synthmaster, for example(Even though I bring up Synthmaster WAY too much.). Here we have a ridiculously capable synth, and one of the most fully-featured I've seen. In fact, it won Music Radar's award for the best softsynth of 2016, and got second place in 2015, losing only to Omnisphere. Did I mention that also on the list was Serum, Massive, FM8, Hive, Zebra 2, Bazille, Diva, Reaktor, and Sylenth1?(this only applies to 2016, as I don't quite recall if any of these were present last year, and can't seem to find the previous list to make sure) MusicRadar even describes it as "the very finest soft synths money can buy". On top of all that, it also costs only $99. So where's the hype?

Sure, Native Instruments is a big company, and Deadmau5(one of the originators of Xfer) is a big name in the music industry, but in the end, it's the community that decides, not the reputation of the company. Going back to my Synthmaster argument, we've seen what it can do, Bulent and the Kv331 team have a "Best Plugin In The World" award under their belts, and to top it off, even Martin Garrix uses it.

I suppose I may just be getting hung up on SM. It's a handy example.

If we take another look at Massive, we know that there is ENORMOUS community support, which has had around 10 years to grow. As a result, the capability of Massive has had that much time to be explored, and there probably isn't a single stone left unturned. Massive has had it's full capability discovered. Serum, on the other hand, was released 2 years ago, and it's already reaching massive levels(haha) of popularity, to the point that a company like Cymatics.FM will use it almost completely primarily for all of their presets and project files.

Here's what I'm getting at: Is this kind of support for such a small range of instruments, resulting in their capabilities being explored that much quicker, good? Or would you prefer if some of the lesser known soft-synths had some of that attention directed to them?

Personally, I find it fascinating the kind of dedication that the electronic music community will have to things like Serum/Massive/etc. At the same time, it bothers me that the instruments that I choose to use have such small support when compared to S/M(Wait.. Serum, Massive, SynthMaster... o mai goodness, i've found a useless coincedental thing.), which means that I have to try and work through issues without the help of a handy google search. For example, I've been trying to find if there's any sort of MIDI CC automapping for Synthmaster, but nothing has revealed itself yet. Looks like a long session of MIDI-learning everything.
Anyway, I'm curious what your opinions are on the matter. :)

Don't take this too seriously, it's more of just a random train of thought I had rather than a well-researched or properly proof-read paper of any kind.
Nobody, Ever wrote:I have enough plugins.

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Yes I get what you are saying. And it would be great to see more support for "lesser known" VST. By support I DO mean community love...which comes in many forms, from advice to presets.

One thing that happens overall is that when a synth gets popular the preset packs become numerous, yet many are boring and lack quality of programming. Some of those barely touch the surface. And then there are preset packs which dig really deep, but cost quite a bit for that experience.

Then there is the advice on synths which touched on...areas where we attempt to learn ourselves what others have done or are doing with their synth. Sadly YouTube is hit or miss.

What I believe is at the core is that users are overwhelmed with variety and choice. When something gets a little momentum we are drawn like a pack because it WILL be supported. This leaves equally powerful synths falling by the wayside because they never got momentum...there is only room for so much. How many times must we dive deeply into the next additive synth?

Even now there are great (maybe even groundbreaking) ideas that are just not gaining momentum due to a saturation of the market.

So I think while you are correct about instruments getting famous, the problem is centered around saturation (not the effect, the affect).

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I get what you mean and I have the same feeling with some sample library-developers, not just synths. But I guess it has a lot to do with marketing.
Like how there wasn't much talk about Kirk Hunter, before the recent Diamond-super-sale.

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thejonsolo wrote:Yes I get what you are saying. And it would be great to see more support for "lesser known" VST. By support I DO mean community love...which comes in many forms, from advice to presets.

One thing that happens overall is that when a synth gets popular the preset packs become numerous, yet many are boring and lack quality of programming. Some of those barely touch the surface. And then there are preset packs which dig really deep, but cost quite a bit for that experience.

Then there is the advice on synths which touched on...areas where we attempt to learn ourselves what others have done or are doing with their synth. Sadly YouTube is hit or miss.

What I believe is at the core is that users are overwhelmed with variety and choice. When something gets a little momentum we are drawn like a pack because it WILL be supported. This leaves equally powerful synths falling by the wayside because they never got momentum...there is only room for so much. How many times must we dive deeply into the next additive synth?

Even now there are great (maybe even groundbreaking) ideas that are just not gaining momentum due to a saturation of the market.

So I think while you are correct about instruments getting famous, the problem is centered around saturation (not the effect, the affect).
That's true, I think I've overlooked that... The issue of presets and the like seemed like a much more concrete way to get my point across, and I admit there there does seem to be a lot of support in the way of advice, though I still have one or two threads about SM problems with no replies.
Nobody, Ever wrote:I have enough plugins.

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zenophilix wrote:Is this kind of support for such a small range of instruments, resulting in their capabilities being explored that much quicker, good? Or would you prefer if some of the lesser known soft-synths had some of that attention directed to them?
I was going to put up a fashion picture - then changed my mind - then again:

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These are woman's hiking outfits from the 1890's, as an example, and completely obsolete (although it's arguable that their true function is exactly the same as every other clothing 'style') - point being: it's all randomness & fashion - Massive and Serum are on top for no particular reason(s) IMHO - as Sylenth was until recently. You didn't even mention Spire (my personal fav, and pretty well supported) or Dune 2 (superb) - was that an oversight? Nope - I believe that your software list was (again) ultimately just random.

Anyway: I'm convinced that that's part of the reason/purpose for communities like ours to exist: we buy & use, and we're horn-blowers - I'm always happy to support a product (and awesome dev like Bulent) that I believe in; and happy-talk their work. Wether anyone else listens or not is fine - my conscience is clear, since I've got no sound-sets to hype; ie: I got no horse in the race - it's genuine enthusiasm.

For me personally: It's super-fun to explore a synths' capabilities. Spire rolls along with new stuff: it's great to be able to apply a new gizmo to a preset - and btw: there's some fabulous preset makers which really help me to see possibilities that I may have missed with a soft - I treat presets as starting points to go in a direction.

All this is to say that I don't give a flying f*ck what KW has stolen and uses in his studio - my tendencies have always been to go my own way.

BTW, In my mind: there's no more of an eye-opener that can be found here from time-to-time then: 'guess the synth(s)' - it's really crazy what can be done with a mature tool like: SynthMaster, right?
Last edited by goldenanalog on Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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goldenanalog wrote:I was going to put up a fashion picture - then changed my mind - then again:

Image

This is a woman's hiking outfit from the 1890's, as an example, and completely obsolete (although it's true function is exactly the same as every other clothing 'style') - point being: it's all randomness & fashion - Massive and Serum are on top for no particular reason(s) IMHO - as Sylenth was until recently. You didn't even mention Spire (my personal fav, and pretty well supported) or Dune 2 (superb) - was that an oversight? Nope - I believe that your software list was (again) just random.

Anyway: I'm convinced that that's part of the reason/purpose for communities like ours to exist: we buy & use, and we're horn-blowers - I'm always happy to support a product (and awesome dev like Bulent) that I believe in; and happy-talk their work. Wether anyone else listens or not is fine - my conscience is clear, since I've got no sound-sets to hype; ie: I got no horse in the race - it's genuine enthusiasm.

For me personally: It's super-fun to explore a synths' capabilities. Spire rolls along with new stuff: it's great to be able to apply a new gizmo to a preset - and btw: there's some fabulous preset makers which really help me to see possibilities that I may have missed with a soft - I treat them as starting points to go in a direction.

All this is to say that I don't give a flying f*ck what KW has stolen and uses in his studio - my tendencies have always been to go my own way.

BTW, In my mind: there's no more of an eye-opener that can be found here from time-to-time then: 'guess the synth(s)' - it's really crazy what can be done with a mature tool like: SynthMaster, right?
Interesting point, now that I think about it, there aren't any features in particular I can think of that set Massive/Serum apart from the rest.

Regarding Spire and Dune 2, it was more of an oversight, though I didn't mention them because I personally haven't seen them as widely talked about. I am starting to really wish I had both, then my synth collection would finally be complete. (HA)

Also, maybe I'm having an idiotic moment, but I have no clue who KW is.. :P

As for the idea of going your own way, that's what I strive to do aswell; I wouldn't have bought Synthmaster if I wanted the community that Massive/Serum/Etc. has, that was a concern I had when looking for a synth but, in the end, the sound won out.
Nobody, Ever wrote:I have enough plugins.

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I agree this is a problem. It seems like you really need to hit the ground running if you want your synth to take off. I think the reason massive and FM8 are so popular is because they are bundled in komplete, so lots of people have it. Of course they are great synths, but I'm guess about 50% of the people who have them would have bought it if it wasn't included in komplete. Serum also had a great launch with teasers and things that got it hyped before its release. Synths without that initial boost seem to struggle to reach that type of popularity.

One thing I think many developers don't consider is giving out free copies to YouTube reviewers or having preset makers create videos on how to make sounds. Before I buy a synth I go to you tube and search for reviews and tutorials. SeemlessR and his videos made me buy Harmor. I think he is getting paid by them now, but I doubt he was at the time I bought it. If more synths had someone like him showing people in depth what the synth could do, I imagine they'd sell more.

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zenophilix wrote:Regarding Spire and Dune 2, it was more of an oversight, though I didn't mention them because I personally haven't seen them as widely talked about.
I don't see it as an oversight on your part, zenophilix - both of these are now actually somewhat yesterday's flavors -
zenophilix wrote:I am starting to really wish I had both, then my synth collection would finally be complete. (HA)
Lol! I used to say stuff like that...OK: both are great, but it's still all a matter of taste.
zenophilix wrote:Also, maybe I'm having an idiotic moment, but I have no clue who KW is.. :P
My apologies: Kanye West. God Bless'em.
zenophilix wrote:As for the idea of going your own way, that's what I strive to do as well; I wouldn't have bought Synthmaster if I wanted the community that Massive/Serum/Etc. has, that was a concern I had when looking for a synth but, in the end, the sound won out.
Spire is my fav for the sound. The single most important question I honestly ask myself is: 'Can I listen to this *whatever* synth - hardware or software - for hours and hours, without getting absolutely sick of it?' The same thing goes for the UI, but at the end of the day: I can live with an impeded UI as long as marathon listening sessions don't make me vomit.

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goldenanalog wrote:My apologies: Kanye West. God Bless'em.

Spire is my fav for the sound. The single most important question I honestly ask myself is: 'Can I listen to this *whatever* synth - hardware or software - for hours and hours, without getting absolutely sick of it?' The same thing goes for the UI, but at the end of the day: I can live with an impeded UI as long as marathon listening sessions with it don't make me vomit.
Ohhhh. Him. Never actually heard any of his stuff, because everyone talks about him, which immediately puts me off on lots of things, including synths to some extent. It's similar to how some people will act all shocked and weirded out that you don't have Netflix or some other crap, people start to just assume that everyone's bought Serum at this point.

In a way, I almost wish I had purchased D2 or Spire instead of Synthmaster, because I love the sound, of course, but I don't think it would hold up to hours of listening. Both D2 and Spire blew me away when I demoed them, though admittedly Spire didn't blow me away until I downloaded some soundbanks.
Nobody, Ever wrote:I have enough plugins.

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zenophilix wrote:In a way, I almost wish I had purchased D2 or Spire instead of Synthmaster, because I love the sound, of course, but I don't think it would hold up to hours of listening. Both D2 and Spire blew me away when I demoed them, though admittedly Spire didn't blow me away until I downloaded some soundbanks.
It would be very difficult for me to criticize Synthmaster - for one thing: Bulent is awesome (really) - for another: I consider Synthmaster one of the most versatile/feature-rich synths in existence - yet another: it's been around for a while; and Bulent is a very pro-active developer - he's quickly fixed critical bugs; & has added lots of features - many at the request of users.

Spire (to my ears) can have a very neutral sound - that may help to go a long ways with it's ability to be listened to extensively. But that's me, zenophilix - and who knows? Someone here may post a mirror-image Spire sound-alike demo - using Synthmaster - that will completely fool my ears. Absolutely.

I would not argue that Spire even begins to have the crazy powerful feature-set that Synthmaster does. No way.

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There are some synths that need more presets, the ones I like and use, I like to get presets to see what can be achieved and discover new things, but some of my favs have so few preset banks (Largo, Twin 2,l Circle, Aalto).
dedication to flying

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Just a mini brainstorm:

What if there was a thread here on KVR, where once a month or so: (5) licenses were (perhaps randomly) given away to (5) users with the understanding that for the rest of that month - those users are to post dialog & demos about the synth given away to them.

- And why not preset banks as well?

Personally: as long as I have the time - I'm happy to help the devs here promote & sell their products.

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Part of the annoyance when synths become really popular, is because they become popular in a genre... so the vast majority of the presets end up within that area.

I find the preset audio demos I have heard for Spire all off putting cause I pretty much dislike the whole genre it is popularly used for.

Serum is kinda that way as well. I am completely bored with the popular aggressive tones that are common these days. For me they have no emotional content so I feel no relationship to those sounds.

I'm sure both Spire and Serum are capable of other types of sounds... but that is rarely what I hear out of them so I pretty much tune them out. I never liked Massive. I've had it for many years, but I never use it. It just sounds kinda sterile to me. Actually, I've had all the NI synths for years and don't touch a one of them. There is a lot of sonic capability there, but it wasn't until Monark and then Reaktor Blocks that I heard NI synth sounds that really made my ears perk up.

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For example, I've been trying to find if there's any sort of MIDI CC automapping for Synthmaster, but nothing has revealed itself yet. Looks like a long session of MIDI-learning everything.
I think I understand the general gist of what you're getting at but in this case you could just ask the developer.
Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

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Oscillot looks like potent and interesting synth, but it died before I got a chance to buy one. It's M4L / Ableton only, so the posible audience is quite small. Also it's maintained by small (one-man?) company and in general doesn't egnerate enough hype.

Recently I also explore AIR synth pack. Everybody alrady own them :hihi: , but there are not many materials on the internet. Lack of producer manual and general support could have an impact.
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