Akai Advance 61 Vs NI S88?
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2332 posts since 5 Oct, 2003
I was hoping to get some help comparing these 2. I've narrowed it down these. I hear the Akai keys are stiff (which I prefer), and my impression is that most people are preferring Advance over the Kontrol Series S. I like that there is an screen on the Akai and it seems like they've been able to develop a system that allows for good control of 3rd party VSTs.
I'd be very curious for those who've have the opportunity to work with both to give me your thoughts. One main feature for me is the key feel. How do the Akai keys feel in comparison to the S88? Also, software integration is a nice perk and Akai seems to have a good system since they are the ones who control the mappings (as opposed to NI providing a framework (NKS) and letting hardware manufacturers adopt their system, or not)
All in all, I lean towards the Akai, but the new NI keyboards (in particular the S88) seem to be very well designed and built...
thank you!
I'd be very curious for those who've have the opportunity to work with both to give me your thoughts. One main feature for me is the key feel. How do the Akai keys feel in comparison to the S88? Also, software integration is a nice perk and Akai seems to have a good system since they are the ones who control the mappings (as opposed to NI providing a framework (NKS) and letting hardware manufacturers adopt their system, or not)
All in all, I lean towards the Akai, but the new NI keyboards (in particular the S88) seem to be very well designed and built...
thank you!
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- KVRist
- 88 posts since 7 Jun, 2005
I have the Akai Advance 61. Hardware wise its well built, all knobs, buttons and keys are very sturdy. I cant compare to the S88 in terms of keyboard quality. It also felt a bit stiffer compared to my old Novation Remote but as I'am not a keyboard player it doesn't matter to me much. One of the knobs did turn smoothly at the beginning (rubbing again the side) but seems to have loosened up now.
Software is very good in concept, screen is nice but very buggy and support seems to be totally lacking. Take a look over at the Akai Pro Community forums and you see quite a few unhappy people who have been waiting over 4 months for critical bugs to be fixed.
For instance Spire, Dune, Arturia v5 don't work at all, they crash to whole thing on switching presets. The software has been updated to 2.1 in the meantime but none of these bugs were fixed
Many of the maps are out of date and only for the previous version of the software vst or missing all together even though they are listed like Iris 2. It seems they had the idea to make a bunch of maps available at the beginning but not to update them going forward. Eventually then there will be no up to date maps as companies update their synths.
There is the whole set of Omnisphere maps but someone seemed to have forgotten to map filter resonance which seems pretty basic to me.
If its just the hardware I would say you need to try them physically. If the software is a big feature then I would say take a longer look at what NI is doing.
Software is very good in concept, screen is nice but very buggy and support seems to be totally lacking. Take a look over at the Akai Pro Community forums and you see quite a few unhappy people who have been waiting over 4 months for critical bugs to be fixed.
For instance Spire, Dune, Arturia v5 don't work at all, they crash to whole thing on switching presets. The software has been updated to 2.1 in the meantime but none of these bugs were fixed
Many of the maps are out of date and only for the previous version of the software vst or missing all together even though they are listed like Iris 2. It seems they had the idea to make a bunch of maps available at the beginning but not to update them going forward. Eventually then there will be no up to date maps as companies update their synths.
There is the whole set of Omnisphere maps but someone seemed to have forgotten to map filter resonance which seems pretty basic to me.
If its just the hardware I would say you need to try them physically. If the software is a big feature then I would say take a longer look at what NI is doing.
- KVRAF
- 3889 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO
The keys are totally diferent, the Kontrol s88 has weighted key action. If you don't play piano you should look at the S61.
As plopseaw points out since the mapping is done by akai it actually becomes a disadvantage going forward as things get updated. iMHO NI made the right choice bringing developers on board with NKS, it makes maintenance cheaper for them.
As plopseaw points out since the mapping is done by akai it actually becomes a disadvantage going forward as things get updated. iMHO NI made the right choice bringing developers on board with NKS, it makes maintenance cheaper for them.
dedication to flying
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2332 posts since 5 Oct, 2003
Great feedback. Thank you plopseaw! I was hoping to get this kind of first hand experience response.plopseaw wrote:I have the Akai Advance 61. Hardware wise its well built, all knobs, buttons and keys are very sturdy. I cant compare to the S88 in terms of keyboard quality. It also felt a bit stiffer compared to my old Novation Remote but as I'am not a keyboard player it doesn't matter to me much. One of the knobs did turn smoothly at the beginning (rubbing again the side) but seems to have loosened up now.
Software is very good in concept, screen is nice but very buggy and support seems to be totally lacking. Take a look over at the Akai Pro Community forums and you see quite a few unhappy people who have been waiting over 4 months for critical bugs to be fixed.
For instance Spire, Dune, Arturia v5 don't work at all, they crash to whole thing on switching presets. The software has been updated to 2.1 in the meantime but none of these bugs were fixed
Many of the maps are out of date and only for the previous version of the software vst or missing all together even though they are listed like Iris 2. It seems they had the idea to make a bunch of maps available at the beginning but not to update them going forward. Eventually then there will be no up to date maps as companies update their synths.
There is the whole set of Omnisphere maps but someone seemed to have forgotten to map filter resonance which seems pretty basic to me.
If its just the hardware I would say you need to try them physically. If the software is a big feature then I would say take a longer look at what NI is doing.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2332 posts since 5 Oct, 2003
Good point! It *sounds* great to think they would control the mappings, but also, that is a huge job and I can see them getting bogged down in it. Appreciate the comments!!rod_zero wrote:The keys are totally diferent, the Kontrol s88 has weighted key action. If you don't play piano you should look at the S61.
As plopseaw points out since the mapping is done by akai it actually becomes a disadvantage going forward as things get updated. iMHO NI made the right choice bringing developers on board with NKS, it makes maintenance cheaper for them.
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- KVRist
- 88 posts since 7 Jun, 2005
Its a shame as Akai VIP would definitely clear the floor with NI if they just would focus on software quality and on going support. If you look at Ableton's controller there are third parties which are supporting Push hardware with live maps for just about anything.
How expensive could it be for Akai to get someone to work on these maps and vst support. If you think about it they are selling a 200 Euro keyboard (e.g. Nectar) with the same number of hardware controls for 600 Euro. Thats 400 Euro for software.
However they seem to be spending exactly 0 Euro for the software. In a marketers world that would be perfect. 400 Euro's for nothing but I don't think the music community see's it like that. Or maybe I'am wrong ;(
How expensive could it be for Akai to get someone to work on these maps and vst support. If you think about it they are selling a 200 Euro keyboard (e.g. Nectar) with the same number of hardware controls for 600 Euro. Thats 400 Euro for software.
However they seem to be spending exactly 0 Euro for the software. In a marketers world that would be perfect. 400 Euro's for nothing but I don't think the music community see's it like that. Or maybe I'am wrong ;(
- KVRAF
- 3889 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO
As Novation's automap showed me some moons ago this control software is heavy on maintenance and support, even more if the company takes upon it self to make the mappings. It adds quickly with the pace software is developed this days.plopseaw wrote:Its a shame as Akai VIP would definitely clear the floor with NI if they just would focus on software quality and on going support. If you look at Ableton's controller there are third parties which are supporting Push hardware with live maps for just about anything.
How expensive could it be for Akai to get someone to work on these maps and vst support. If you think about it they are selling a 200 Euro keyboard (e.g. Nectar) with the same number of hardware controls for 600 Euro. Thats 400 Euro for software.
However they seem to be spending exactly 0 Euro for the software. In a marketers world that would be perfect. 400 Euro's for nothing but I don't think the music community see's it like that. Or maybe I'am wrong ;(
NI model was smarter, even if the software is more limited in the start. They knew this from Kore failure where they were overwhelmed by the number of updates required to keep everything integrated, so they just got the others developers involved: cheaper, more sustainable, more long term success.
Just hope NI makes better controllers.
dedication to flying
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- KVRist
- 88 posts since 7 Jun, 2005
Akai VIP is very much like NI Kore (except its not been discontinued yet . If I think about the margin they are asking for the software (I mean 400 Euro's is a lot and the Nektar is of equivalent quality) I would think they at least use some of that to fund an ongoing effort to keep the maps up to date and actually fix some show stopper bugs. Most of the map creation can be automated.
The whole situation has really put me off Akai software. I considered the MPC Touch but again I can see the similar story repeated there. Akai VIP are killing the idea of software / hardware fusion. Who would want a third party layer between you and the DAW which crashes. Certainly not for live use.
NI may be slow to update some stuff lately but at least I don't get straight crashes with Kontrol, it works with Reaktor 6, I know it will work with Komplete 11 ultimate, it works with Arturia v5 etc etc etc. My Kore 2 still works today more stable that Akai VIP and thats not even supported anymore
The whole situation has really put me off Akai software. I considered the MPC Touch but again I can see the similar story repeated there. Akai VIP are killing the idea of software / hardware fusion. Who would want a third party layer between you and the DAW which crashes. Certainly not for live use.
NI may be slow to update some stuff lately but at least I don't get straight crashes with Kontrol, it works with Reaktor 6, I know it will work with Komplete 11 ultimate, it works with Arturia v5 etc etc etc. My Kore 2 still works today more stable that Akai VIP and thats not even supported anymore
- KVRist
- 265 posts since 25 Jan, 2016 from in my DAW
I only comment on the build quality as I don't use the provided software integrations.
Compared to the Akai Advance the Kontrol S series is by far more solid and imho better built (more solid).
The NI keyboards are made by Fatar which is definitely high class. At least from the viewpoint of a keyboarder (meaning someone who plays real music on it) the Kontrol S series wins by far. Fantastic keyboard. The Akai Advance keyboard is grippy too but has more of a plastic feel to it.
I also don't like the big knobs on the Akai. Beautiful looking but not that handy when actually working with it (you have to make bigger moves).
Compared to the Akai Advance the Kontrol S series is by far more solid and imho better built (more solid).
The NI keyboards are made by Fatar which is definitely high class. At least from the viewpoint of a keyboarder (meaning someone who plays real music on it) the Kontrol S series wins by far. Fantastic keyboard. The Akai Advance keyboard is grippy too but has more of a plastic feel to it.
I also don't like the big knobs on the Akai. Beautiful looking but not that handy when actually working with it (you have to make bigger moves).
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2332 posts since 5 Oct, 2003
thanks!tedannemann wrote:I only comment on the build quality as I don't use the provided software integrations.
Compared to the Akai Advance the Kontrol S series is by far more solid and imho better built (more solid).
The NI keyboards are made by Fatar which is definitely high class. At least from the viewpoint of a keyboarder (meaning someone who plays real music on it) the Kontrol S series wins by far. Fantastic keyboard. The Akai Advance keyboard is grippy too but has more of a plastic feel to it.
I also don't like the big knobs on the Akai. Beautiful looking but not that handy when actually working with it (you have to make bigger moves).
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- KVRAF
- 2267 posts since 9 Mar, 2009 from Copenhagen, Denmark
The VIP software is a great idea (actually based on the freeware Zen preset manager by Big Tick as far as I recall). Still, they miss some key plugin maps (Like Arturia v5) but hopefully that will happen shortly. You're supposed to be able to make your own control maps from scratch but I have no idea how to do so. To this date I've not seen any user made control maps available on the internet either.
I bought the Advance 61 last summer upon release and installing VIP was pure hell! After loads of tries and bad support from Akai I was on the verge of selling the whole thing. A windows 10 upgrade did help a lot though and apart from some (still decreasing amount) random chrashes when certain plugins, everything works fine now.
The Advance is a pretty good controller and I frequently map other synths not supported by VIP to it. Keys are spongy at best but I got used to them. I own an old Roland A-90 88 key controller for piano stuff to back it up, so to speak.
Akai's intentions are great with this system but it's like they want too much at a time, and the technology isn't quite there yet. The bugs need to be ironed out. I'm happy with mine but in the beginning it felt more like a trial and error thing than a tool for music creation.
I'm keeping mine for now, while eagerly awating the future. No doubt that the Advance and Kontrol way of working will be the future of controllers as we know them.
I like all the plugins that comes as part of the VIP package too. The Velvet Rhodes are very playable and sound great. Eighty Eight is a decent piano but doesn't rival the best on the market. The AIR synths have they strenghts too especially if your working within the EDM circles (which I am not)
I bought the Advance 61 last summer upon release and installing VIP was pure hell! After loads of tries and bad support from Akai I was on the verge of selling the whole thing. A windows 10 upgrade did help a lot though and apart from some (still decreasing amount) random chrashes when certain plugins, everything works fine now.
The Advance is a pretty good controller and I frequently map other synths not supported by VIP to it. Keys are spongy at best but I got used to them. I own an old Roland A-90 88 key controller for piano stuff to back it up, so to speak.
Akai's intentions are great with this system but it's like they want too much at a time, and the technology isn't quite there yet. The bugs need to be ironed out. I'm happy with mine but in the beginning it felt more like a trial and error thing than a tool for music creation.
I'm keeping mine for now, while eagerly awating the future. No doubt that the Advance and Kontrol way of working will be the future of controllers as we know them.
I like all the plugins that comes as part of the VIP package too. The Velvet Rhodes are very playable and sound great. Eighty Eight is a decent piano but doesn't rival the best on the market. The AIR synths have they strenghts too especially if your working within the EDM circles (which I am not)
- KVRAF
- 4590 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw
To me it's like keyboard is 1/3 cost of package, plugins are 1/3 and VIP itself is also 1/3.plopseaw wrote:
How expensive could it be for Akai to get someone to work on these maps and vst support. If you think about it they are selling a 200 Euro keyboard (e.g. Nectar) with the same number of hardware controls for 600 Euro. Thats 400 Euro for software.
However they seem to be spending exactly 0 Euro for the software. In a marketers world that would be perfect. 400 Euro's for nothing but I don't think the music community see's it like that. Or maybe I'am wrong ;(
- Keyboard quality is superb and I really enjoy it.
- Plugin pack is large and interesting, though AIR plugins seem underdeveloped / poorly supported. They could win the market if these were actually polished.
- VIP is great on paper, but too unreliable to use it. There are minor and major bugs, plugin support issues (but I see it's hard to get hundreds of plugins working all the time). For now all I can make out of it is offline preset manager. Didn't try to use it in actual project yet. Too bad it makes entire package pointless.
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- KVRist
- 88 posts since 7 Jun, 2005
Situation is becoming dreadful over at Akai regarding the Advance VIP. Long standing bugs which crash the whole software left unfixed for over 6 months. Really popular stuff like Sylenth, Dune, Spire, Arturia not working.
Take a look at this thread before thinking of buying
http://community.akaipro.com/akai_profe ... ng-presets
Seems one case where NI are far ahead of Akai in terms of stability and customer service
Take a look at this thread before thinking of buying
http://community.akaipro.com/akai_profe ... ng-presets
Seems one case where NI are far ahead of Akai in terms of stability and customer service
- KVRAF
- 3889 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO
That should have been obvious since thay one, NI is a software company and I think while they ar enot perfect a lot of their products are super stable and solid.plopseaw wrote:
Seems one case where NI are far ahead of Akai in terms of stability and customer service
Akai has been having trouble with software products since the MPC ren.
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