How much do you automate your synths?

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I'm not talking about the usual suspects like cutoff/resonance etc. I'm referring to ADSR envelopes, waveforms, etc.

I have two patches that are quite similar and am debating if I should simply duplicate the synth or automate the changes.

I know YMMV and all that, just curious really.

Obviously both options have their advantages and disadvantages.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

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I just link the parameters I would liek to automate to Ableton Instrument Rack and play with it. Usually there are 1 to 3 parameters I can manage, more means losing focus on what's teh sound really like.
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Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

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DJ Warmonger wrote:I just link the parameters I would liek to automate to Ableton Instrument Rack and play with it. Usually there are 1 to 3 parameters I can manage, more means losing focus on what's teh sound really like.
That last point is my key concern actually. Now that I have the sound I like to lock it down. Then any adjustments are made on a duplicate.

However it seems a bit unnecessary to duplicate the entire track for a few parameter changes.

Oh and if you think I'm contradicting myself, you're correct. Hence my post.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

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Mushy Mushy wrote:
DJ Warmonger wrote:I just link the parameters I would liek to automate to Ableton Instrument Rack and play with it. Usually there are 1 to 3 parameters I can manage, more means losing focus on what's teh sound really like.
That last point is my key concern actually. Now that I have the sound I like to lock it down. Then any adjustments are made on a duplicate.

However it seems a bit unnecessary to duplicate the entire track for a few parameter changes.

Oh and if you think I'm contradicting myself, you're correct. Hence my post.
But that is the kind of thing that the DAW makes easy - I duplicate tracks for the sake of convenience over automating stuff more often than not.
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''How much do you automate your synths?''
Depends on three factors:

Time available,
Need for variety / live feel,
Amount of publicity the track will receive.


In your specific situation, if you're unsure, my advice would be to duplicate it.

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do_androids_dream wrote:But that is the kind of thing that the DAW makes easy - I duplicate tracks for the sake of convenience over automating stuff more often than not.
Yes indeed, very true.
Oh the times we live in...
Doug1978 wrote:Time available,
Need for variety / live feel,
Amount of publicity the track will receive.


In your specific situation, if you're unsure, my advice would be to duplicate it.
All valid points, Doug.
Just for fun let's answer them one by one :D

- Very little
- Lots
- Absolutely zero :oops:

So given that, you're absolutely correct, duplication is indeed the way forward.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

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But that is the kind of thing that the DAW makes easy - I duplicate tracks for the sake of convenience over automating stuff more often than not.
I can define the macro knob to sound "normal" at 0 setting and "special" on max setting - so I can always recall these.
Also, it's nice to have automation as a part of a clip and store different versions of a clip in same track, then launch them live. Check the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSRe27_fDak

I recently figured out that good preparation of clips gives better results than drawing automation from scratch in arrangement view. Just split sound design and performance parts of production.
Blog ------------- YouTube channel
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

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Mushy Mushy wrote:I'm not talking about the usual suspects like cutoff/resonance etc. I'm referring to ADSR envelopes, waveforms, etc.

I have two patches that are quite similar and am debating if I should simply duplicate the synth or automate the changes.

I know YMMV and all that, just curious really.

Obviously both options have their advantages and disadvantages.
Maybe your best bet is to program sounds so that they have natural & organic modulations when you simply ...... PLAY them.

On the PolyKB II for example, you have hardwired assignations of velocity on decay+release (also on VCA, Filter etc) . And it works well to mimic the behaviour of many 'natural' instruments' . Thru the mod matrix though, you can also assign pretty much any playing parameter ( wheel, velocity, aftertouch, PB, Foot controller pedals) to pretty much any parameter : Envelopes segments, filters, Lfo speed, effects, VCA, EVs level outputs etc) Same with a lot of other synths, including all Xils-Lab ones.

So, if you program the sounds carefully, or use carefully built presets, AND then play them accordingly to what you have programmed, you have at once full life WITHOUT having to worry to make automation lines AFTER the performance. This might be something you'd like to explore.
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there

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I'm all for automating parameters in my DAW... I do it all the time :)

That might be questionable, especially with a synth like Absynth in which you can created quite complex envelopes within it. I just prefer to use my DAW's automation lanes... Better visibility and even more flexibility in my opinion...

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There are dangerous people that may attach to this thread. I am not one of them. For the non inuendo topic of automation it bares mentioning that it seems that step input of automation is useful instead of the full MIDI rate automation that isn't auto quantized, on a real topic. 4ndy you ever try Quartz or Obelisk as an alternative technique? You probably know the designers.

With sincerity and integrity,

-Sam
My YOUTUBE slideshows, etc. - https://www.youtube.com/user/samabate2k

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Tantra's a lot of fun also. I automate modulations of mix wet/dry only in some mixes + volume faders TBH. LFO Tool or Bitwig are useful for cross modulations auto mapped knobs orrrrr learned knobs. I make up for modulation automation with things like synth, drum syncopation and delay and various choppers + swept filters and pre programmed lfo's. It's nice to just open up a grab bag and use a Vibrato + a Replika XT "Loopo" preset on preset FM bells. The vibrato serves to make the sound more varied and deeper and better and the "Loopo" makes it even deeper. I named my latest song "Determined Path" it mimics the cadence and detail of a pad and bell generative sequence with it's traditional repetition and "colliding" of sounds. It doesn't use any pirate. It goes perfectly with my blues scale style "Morphlow Transmission" song. In 2 deep is what they call someone who burns all the food and eats lot's of illegal gourmet surrounded by frowning people who could never even get a clerk job or database job or office assistant job like I would've normally with other money on the side.

i learned that I would've had about 1.2 million worth of material possessions if I included resold items and expended accessories if I wasn't pursued for things like their unknown meaning Morph word as far and wide as in the "Transsmission" bit torrent. They have no logic memory base it's the twilight zone dudes. They can't figure anything and they're in charge of figuring. They the Virginians in the CIA. They latch naturally onto the last people to blame. Don't dis max he's their poster boy and cecilia. It's all pure nonsense. Vangelis and Eno are similar styles but my style is without pro engineer assistance and with amnesia.

Quick edit - I sometimes automate the usual LFO rate, cutoff, resonance also and my most recent song until I make a new one tonight or try to is "Determining Path" the sounds collide off of one another gently and the pads begin and cease and begin again to add more motion and depth to the song. Each note determines the next natural response. Some music speaks, some music sings, some music dances. Some music you dance to. That's quotable.

-Sam
My YOUTUBE slideshows, etc. - https://www.youtube.com/user/samabate2k

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Synapse2k wrote:4ndy you ever try Quartz or Obelisk as an alternative technique?
Never heard of them.

I use Tantra all the time though... Along with automation.

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