Is Cakewalk going out of business?

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chk071 wrote:Aah... :D But you don't need support for that then. Deliver the account details, buyer changes it to his own, done. :) Or do they actually have some system now, which lets you transfer single products?
So what do you do, change everything to something factious first? I don't want someone getting some of the pertinent info.

Oh FFS, the latest isn't even in my account (X2)

N/M

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EnGee wrote:
emcee wrote:Cakewalk is now part of Muse Research

;)
Are you serious? Or is it just a joke?
Just in jest.. as there's some similarities between the two companies gradual decline and partial implosion.

aah the good old days..
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Don't Tech No for an Answer

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emcee wrote:
EnGee wrote:
emcee wrote:Cakewalk is now part of Muse Research

;)
Are you serious? Or is it just a joke?
Just in jest.. as there's some similarities between the two companies gradual decline and partial implosion.
Oh! :hihi:

You made me go checking! I found Muse Research like a small oasis soon to be a deserted land, while Cakewalk forums reminded me of the movie's poster "Being John Malkovich" except it is Craig Anderton with a guitar, not Malkovich :hihi:
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haha - nice one. :)

So question begs. I'e been using Cakewalk/Sonar since the early 90's and have tried to ween myself off it, have tried all the usual suspects but comfort zone keeps me always double clicking on Sonar first. Recommendations to try? My main criteria are:

don't do a lot of audio
needs to talk to four hardware midi synths (remember, five pin din?) :)
don't use many VST's for production - for the time being the VST load is done by Muse Receptor 2+
needs to be easily used on stage, on a Surface Pro or Macbook for midi backing tracks - Sonar's Play List View
patch library would be great to have - ie: search for bass and list patch names, the way Sonar does with it's .ins files
flexible licencing - I run main PC/Desktop in the home studio for composing/recording etc and one or two devices for live gigs

And of course a stable company with reasonable support options..

Thanks
Don't Tech No for an Answer

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IMO check Ableton Live and Biwig Studio. Both have hardware instrument type to insert in the tracks. The workflow is fantastic and you can record your ideas fast into clips (midi or audio) and arrange/alter them later.
The license is flexible and the support is friendly, but you might need to contact them for more than 2 licensed computers.
I think Bitwig Studio is customised/tried to work with Surface Pro. Anyway, I doubt you can find better than those 2 for quick composing/arrangement, but they are not heavily towards mixing and mastering.

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Sweet - might give Ableton another go. I do have Bitwig floating around that I got as a freebie 2 years back when I had my Nektar P61 controller - was a bit rough around the edges at the time but the fact it ran on any OS was a nice plus..

Cheers
Don't Tech No for an Answer

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emcee wrote:Sweet - might give Ableton another go. I do have Bitwig floating around that I got as a freebie 2 years back when I had my Nektar P61 controller - was a bit rough around the edges at the time but the fact it ran on any OS was a nice plus..

Cheers
I don't know about Bigwig, but Ableton does not support sysex in Windows, so midi communication with external devices is limited. There is no patch manager whatsoever either, though I have made Max4live midi plugins to handle the patch lists and changes and some other tricks, but only with CC and bank/patch change messages.

For me, Sonar is still the best solution for handling hardware synths in Windows, especially because you can even set up a workflow that stores sysex dumps of the patches within the project instead of using the synth memory.
This way you can even keep several versions of a patch stored with the project, or you can use a separate project and keep it open as librarian.

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vintagevibe wrote:
Grumbleweed wrote:Why do you keep updating Sonar when all you have ever done is moan about it?

If you're talking to me, it's because I have many Sonar Files that I have to use. All new files are created in Cubase.
I was talking to you.
As you must know you don't need to update anything. You stick to the version you created the files in and leave it alone in a dark corner of your PC.
It seems perverse that you'd risk updating Sonar again when you think it will "crash every time you use it" (I'm quoting you from a previous thread).

Grum.

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JoseC. wrote:
emcee wrote:Sweet - might give Ableton another go. I do have Bitwig floating around that I got as a freebie 2 years back when I had my Nektar P61 controller - was a bit rough around the edges at the time but the fact it ran on any OS was a nice plus..

Cheers
I don't know about Bigwig, but Ableton does not support sysex in Windows, so midi communication with external devices is limited. There is no patch manager whatsoever either, though I have made Max4live midi plugins to handle the patch lists and changes and some other tricks, but only with CC and bank/patch change messages.

For me, Sonar is still the best solution for handling hardware synths in Windows, especially because you can even set up a workflow that stores sysex dumps of the patches within the project instead of using the synth memory.
This way you can even keep several versions of a patch stored with the project, or you can use a separate project and keep it open as librarian.
Thanks - yes I do recall having issues/challenges with both Ableton and Bitwig doing things like changing banks in the Roland JV2080 at the time and more recently the Integra-7

That kind of workflow is what has kept me on Sonar - and playing live I could bring up a blank sequence with just patch changes at the start to load up the sounds required for that song - without having to reach for the midi rack and manually flick through banks/patches. I think tomorrow I'll pull down as many trials to see what can replicate that and ideally a patch library.. Things were so much simpler with the Korg Sqd-1 and a Juno-106 and Esq1 in the 80's :)
Don't Tech No for an Answer

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If you're using Bitwig, you can use the free ReaPlugs (http://reaper.fm/reaplugs/) and insert the ReaControlMIDI just before the external MIDI output in a chain. This will allow you to load patches from a list in either ReaBank or Cakewalk INS format.

There are definitely ReaBank and INS format files for the Integra-7.

*edit* - yes, here is the Reabank file for the Integra-7 - http://stash.reaper.fm/browse.php?q=integra-7&x=9&y=10

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emcee wrote:

Thanks - yes I do recall having issues/challenges with both Ableton and Bitwig doing things like changing banks in the Roland JV2080 at the time and more recently the Integra-7

That kind of workflow is what has kept me on Sonar - and playing live I could bring up a blank sequence with just patch changes at the start to load up the sounds required for that song - without having to reach for the midi rack and manually flick through banks/patches. I think tomorrow I'll pull down as many trials to see what can replicate that and ideally a patch library.. Things were so much simpler with the Korg Sqd-1 and a Juno-106 and Esq1 in the 80's :)
Using the synths internal memory to store the patches and sending changes from a sequence is the easiest way, but not the most flexible if you program your own. I use .ins definition files just for presets, and to have a specific list of CC for the synth. The problem if you program your patches and store them in the synths memory is that you then would need to update the definition file and store a backup of the patch somewhere. What I do is send a dump request message from Sonar to the synth so I get a sysex dump of the synths edit buffer to Sonar Sysex View, and flag it to be auto sent back to the synth when the project is opened. This way I have total recall of the whole midi setup and I do not need to care about backing up the synths internal memory.

Another advantage of doing this is that since the Sysex View is independent of tracks, and can hold more than 8,000 sysex dumps, you can edit your sounds in the synth and store as many different versions of each of them as you want within the project they were intended for.

Of course this basic procedure changes a bit from one synth to another, and you need to understand sysex and to be willing to get into hexadecimal messages, but if you do you wont find a better way to control a midi setup from a DAW.

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Grumbleweed wrote:
vintagevibe wrote:
Grumbleweed wrote:Why do you keep updating Sonar when all you have ever done is moan about it?

If you're talking to me, it's because I have many Sonar Files that I have to use. All new files are created in Cubase.
I was talking to you.
As you must know you don't need to update anything. You stick to the version you created the files in and leave it alone in a dark corner of your PC.
It seems perverse that you'd risk updating Sonar again when you think it will "crash every time you use it" (I'm quoting you from a previous thread).

Grum.

I answered your truthfully and you respond with nothing but snarkyness. Why are you in this thread?

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vintagevibe wrote:
Grumbleweed wrote:
vintagevibe wrote:
Grumbleweed wrote:Why do you keep updating Sonar when all you have ever done is moan about it?

If you're talking to me, it's because I have many Sonar Files that I have to use. All new files are created in Cubase.
I was talking to you.
As you must know you don't need to update anything. You stick to the version you created the files in and leave it alone in a dark corner of your PC.
It seems perverse that you'd risk updating Sonar again when you think it will "crash every time you use it" (I'm quoting you from a previous thread).

Grum.

I answered your truthfully and you respond with nothing but snarkyness. Why are you in this thread?
I'm not being snarky, I genuinely don't understand why you want to spend more money on something that causes you grief.
If your new files are made in Cubase then your old Sonar files are made in an old Sonar. Why not just leave it at that?

Grum.

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It was snarky because you said "moaning" which at least in english is considered a put-down.

Edit, it's obviously one of those situations where fanboi is applied. Keep trolling.
Last edited by incubus on Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grumbleweed wrote:
vintagevibe wrote:
Grumbleweed wrote:
vintagevibe wrote:
Grumbleweed wrote:Why do you keep updating Sonar when all you have ever done is moan about it?

If you're talking to me, it's because I have many Sonar Files that I have to use. All new files are created in Cubase.
I was talking to you.
As you must know you don't need to update anything. You stick to the version you created the files in and leave it alone in a dark corner of your PC.
It seems perverse that you'd risk updating Sonar again when you think it will "crash every time you use it" (I'm quoting you from a previous thread).

Grum.

I answered your truthfully and you respond with nothing but snarkyness. Why are you in this thread?
I'm not being snarky, I genuinely don't understand why you want to spend more money on something that causes you grief.
If your new files are made in Cubase then your old Sonar files are made in an old Sonar. Why not just leave it at that?

Grum.


Upgrading to Sonar Pro 2016 got me 3 AD drum kits for less that the half off prices at Audiodeluxe. It also gave me some nice 3rd party plugs. I try to avoid the parts that don't work. You called me perverse for that. Really strange and rude.

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