Behringer Analog Synth

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IncarnateX wrote:I am afraid nothing seems to suggest that at this point. However it seemingly has a layerfunction and that could mean at least bi-timbrality.
Well, I'll put it this way: if this only had 2 LFO's total, it'd DEFINITELY be monotimbral. With individual LFO's per voice, there's still the possibility of it being multitimbral.

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chk071 wrote:Just wondering, but can you really distinguish between DCO's, and VCO's?? I mean, even analog fetishist are getting fooled by analog/soft synth blind tests...
I think so. For example, I think DIVA's VA oscillators sound more like VCO's than my MKS-70's DCO's do. Perhaps an even better example would be the Dave Smith Prophet08 and Prophet-6, I think anyone would be able to tell them apart in a blind test.

Anyway, just listen to these Behringer sound examples, they scream Roland DCO! :)

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In the real world, away from internet bickering, nobody gives a crap what the specs are as long as the sound spitting out the wires is good.

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chk071 wrote:Just wondering, but can you really distinguish between DCO's, and VCO's?? I mean, even analog fetishist are getting fooled by analog/soft synth blind tests...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrHrtVgZPrA
Best hearable at 0:44.
[====[\\\\\\\\]>------,

Ay caramba !

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Well ok. The big difference i hear there though is that the Korg osc's seem ridiculously unstable in pitch. I really don't know if that is comparable with vco's in modern analog synths. But, hey, not at all an expert on that, or analog synths in general, so i will trust you guys on that. :)

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chk071 wrote:Well ok. The big difference i hear there though is that the Korg osc's seem ridiculously unstable in pitch. I really don't know if that is comparable with vco's in modern analog synths. But, hey, not at all an expert on that, or analog synths in general, so i will trust you guys on that. :)
And that's just it...Voltage is controlling the oscillator on the Korg (just like it says on the tin), more drift, more instability and less predictable, while the Juno oscillator is being kept inline digitally. And I have owned both the Poly6 and Juno6. I still own the Juno. That's my personal preference though, and just looking around my studio I seem to prefer VC mono synths and DC poly's.

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That is the problem companies like DSI attempts to solve with "Oscillator Slop." Is it effective?
바보

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Oh yes. That analog madness from which both dco and vco guys suffer just to different degrees. Sometimes I really have to wake myself up from it not to fall into pure GAS and delusions. I am on vacation with the family for the moment, having brought only my MC909 with me to deal with musical withdrawel symptoms. Yesterday I reproduced some of my most used analogish presets on it, among other a Vangelish "blade-lead" (though after cursingly scrolling through hundreds of unusable waveforms) and it just striked me how far you can get in this respect, even with a shameless XV rompler. Of course, the same moment you tweak the filter, it is going to scream "digital" until your head nearly blows off, but used for relatively unmodified analog "presets", I am certain I would fail rivers of blind tests myself. I do not know how much analog madness you allow yourself, but when my upper limit for an analog synth is 700€, it is not just about living on a family budget but setting a clear limit beyond which it simply doesn't make sense to me compared to the musical effects and functions I can achieve with it. Uli's latest post makes it clear to me that I do not have to speculate further about this one. It apparently will go beyond the point where I would not will think myself utterly crazy buying it. Gonna stay around of curiosity, though. Good luck dealing with your GAS, budgets and conscience, guys.

Peace, love and quality weed to you all 8)

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from my experience : with VCOs 2 detuned saws sound slightly fatter than with 2 DCOs. there's more movement (the drift?). but ain't a night or day difference. just subtle.
modern ultra stable vcos and dcos sound pretty similar.
exception the minilogue VCOs which have a bit of drifting going on like older synths which I like.
then again DCOs could be programmed to behave the same way.

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It would be cool if the 12 voice is a flagship for a series of synths, with the next in line being a 6 voice poly with only one or two of the FX chains. Could fit in the same chassis, sharing the same control interface, possibly keeping the cost down...pure speculation, but would be nice.

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olikana wrote: then again DCOs could be programmed to behave the same way.
Perverse. You implement DCO's, to make them more pitch stable, and then program them to have more drift. :D

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chk071 wrote:
olikana wrote: then again DCOs could be programmed to behave the same way.
Perverse. You implement DCO's, to make them more pitch stable, and then program them to have more drift. :D
Drifting around the correct pitch is fine, just drifting isn't (no Paul Walker jokes please) 8)

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I have never followed a thread as closely on Gear Slutz as the Behringer synth thread and I must say I am impressed by the amount of screwed logics, contra-intuitive thinking and just completely uncontrolled associations. At some point a few were close to sure it would have motorized sliders, another deduces from it's four effects sections that it must be 4 part multitimbral, yet another suggests that it's 4000 components are worth 1€ each, why the costs will be 4000€....and a lot of other wierd suggestions. I actually thought we at KVR were the masters of absolute bullshit, but we don't come anywhere near this. What a party they are having :party:

One thing is for sure: Whatfuckingever they are smoking over there - I want some!

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chk071 wrote:
olikana wrote: then again DCOs could be programmed to behave the same way.
Perverse. You implement DCO's, to make them more pitch stable, and then program them to have more drift. :D
Avtually there is a difference between oscilator being totally out of tune which could happen with VCOs especially if they are not warmed up and slight drifting while playing with them. Even with slight drifting overall the Oscs could still in tune.

The last VCO synth i had was a Moog Slim Phatty and it took around 20 minutes until the pitch was stable. It also had an autotune feature that could be switched on just for a short time or permanently. One kind of DCOs (there seem to be multiple types) could be having a VCO with permanent autotune.
Actually one definition of a DCO is having a VCO that permamently receives control voltages via a digital-analog converter (created by a CPU etc.). It seems to work like that in the Pulse 2 for example.
A VCO that always keeps a proper pitch (besides small amounts of drifting maybe) without digital controls AFAFIK must use some kind of temperature stabilization as the temperature is the most important factor for VCOs staying in tune. This is an article about temperature compensated VCOs:
http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell/synthmodules/vco.html

FWIW a fully digital oscillator seems to be called NCO = numerically controlled oscillator. Those seem to be used in e.g. the Modal synths like e.g. Modal 001 and 002. At least Modal calls them NCOs themselves.
I am not really sure how far a NCO is different from using a DSP chip or if those are comparable.

Wikipedia articles about DCOs and NCOs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digitally ... oscillator
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerical ... oscillator


At the moment i got 2 synths taht use DCOs (Waldorf Pulse 2 and Novation Bass Station II) and 2 taht are hybrid wit hanalog filters and VCAs (Korg DW-8000, Ensoniq ESQ-1).
I had opened the Pulse 2 and you could see a fully analog signal path with discrete circuits, including parts for the Oscs and the Noise source. The Oscs (and other parts of the synth) seem to receive control voltages created by a DA converter built-in wth the CPU (which should also include the modulation sources that are not analog as far as i could see). It is possible to see circuits (including labels at the board for some of them) for the Oscs, Noise, the analog multimode filter, the VCA and the analog Drive. Besids using a few standard transistor arrays for the filter there are no pre-built filter chips like e.g. the CEM or SSM ones.
Last edited by Ingonator on Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ftech wrote:It would be cool if the 12 voice is a flagship for a series of synths, with the next in line being a 6 voice poly with only one or two of the FX chains. Could fit in the same chassis, sharing the same control interface, possibly keeping the cost down...pure speculation, but would be nice.
They usually do offer different tiers of their products but it might not be as simple a process in this case. For example, the simplest way to scale it would be by numbers of keys but it might be tough to get smaller given all the controls.

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