Imitone -- wow! Most embarassing post I ever started

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

Just thought I'd mention that Imitone 0.8.2 Beta is posted.

I spotted this while wandering around Twitter. Downloaded, but haven't installed. Good luck to all involved!

http://imitone.com/beta/

Post

danke

Post

pottering wrote:VST or not, I hope you guys remember this is not a "guitar (or any other instrument) to midi" software, nor a Melodyne Audio-To-MIDI alternative.

It is only meant for converting human voice (singing/humming), never promised otherwise.
http://imitone.com/ says: "imitone also understands humming, whistling and most instruments".

G

Post

Whatever, keep hating.

edit: Ok, I was wrong, the blurb does say "instruments", not fair to paint such criticism as just "hate". I still feel the marketing makes it clear what it is made for, and hence not misleading.

edit2: Installed 0.8.2, call me crazy but the detection seems better to me, using only the laptop's crap (webcam's) microphone.
Last edited by pottering on Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

Post

Photo_G wrote:
pottering wrote:VST or not, I hope you guys remember this is not a "guitar (or any other instrument) to midi" software, nor a Melodyne Audio-To-MIDI alternative.

It is only meant for converting human voice (singing/humming), never promised otherwise.
http://imitone.com/ says: "imitone also understands humming, whistling and most instruments".

G
obviously monophonic instruments...(or monophonic performances)

Post

From the readme:
Beta 0.8.2 -- July 14, 2016

This update introduces the note interpreter stage, improving imitone's translation.
The internal pipeline was enhanced and prepared for next-gen development.
A few improvements from 0.9.0 research were added to the tracking system.

New Features:

Changes:

Added a new "interpretation" stage to imitone's pipeline.
- Fewer drop-outs.
- Transitions between notes are much less erratic.
- Generally improved sense of control.
Various parts of the tracking algorithm were improved.
- Deep bass voices now track much better. (But not vocal fry!)
- "Octave-down" errors were substantially reduced.
- Improved behavior during long pitch slides.
- The latency difference in "reliable" mode was reduced by about 30%.
- Adjusted and fine-tuned various parameters.
Altered imitone's settings file format.
- 0.8.1 settings will be lost.
- It is a little easier to change settings like range by hand.
- The settings file now includes a few helpful comments.
CPU usage was reduced by 10-20%, depending on machine.
Note mode is now called "slide mode". Renamed "slide" option to "sweep".
Settings are preserved better in multi-channel performances.
Auto-adjust was adjusted (ha) to better tolerate irregular tones.

Fixes:

Fixed a crash related to device selection.
Fixed a graphics-related startup error.
imitone now properly remembers the trigger mode setting, among others.
Fixed a bug that caused stuck notes in certain receiving apps.
Fixed an issue where imitone would leave notes playing when closed.
Fixed a problem with sticking notes during sleep mode.
Various other small fixes.
ABLETON LIVE 12 & PUSH2
Soundcloud: Nation of Korea vs Shitty Dog

Post

Hello, all.

I'm only just now seeing posts since the 9th, but my latest Kickstarter update touches on a lot of what's been brought up here and explains the general situation. Feedback on 0.8.2 is very positive so far. If you want to know more, ask.


Further remarks on the plugin: It was irresponsible of me to make that promise. I was way too eager to please people here, and it was bad prioritization. Why?

Reason one: imitone has always been aimed at a more general market than the pro-audio culture represented here. It's not a replacement for other audio-to-MIDI technology because it's aimed at people who might not even know what MIDI is. I've avoided spelling this out, but it reflects in the website, the design, the language I use---everything. And it reflects in my strategy: The technical bar for imitone is much higher for this amateur audience than it is for people here, because when imitone makes a mistake they think well, I'm just not good at this. Priority one is building the world's most user-friendly instrument; priority two is maximizing that instrument's potential. My current work is pushing firmly in both directions.

Reason two: Around February I tried out Midi Guitar with my voice, and other than my gripes with its scale mechanism I found it basically comparable with 0.8.1---meaning an imitone-like VST already existed. Based on my experience it's easily the best real-time pitch to MIDI outside of imitone, so you have my encouragement to buy it instead! (It even has a voice preset, if I remember correctly. Props to Ole and friends for eight years of hard work.)

Now I do realize the standalone routing is a huge pain (or even a show-stopper) when it comes to a studio setup, and I'm not going to wait until the end of the beta to do the portwork---that would be an awful mistake. But I have my priorities, and I'm sticking to them: Get the technology to a point where I feel like I'd use it for serious composition. 0.8.2 gets surprisingly close to that, and the new tech I'm planning promises to be a much bigger improvement.


Regarding costs and side projects, no; imitone is basically my sole income and I don't put much time into anything else other than SoundSelf---and even that has demanded only a few weeks since February. I live on about $1000-1500 a month; by far most of my expenses have been from exhibition, legal fees and taxes. I completely acknowledge that putting a VST out sooner would boost sales, but I don't need the extra income.
imitone: transform your voice into any instrument.

Post

Check out the migic demo if you're curious also. Very promising, although I think it's just for guitar/bass.
https://migic.com/

Post

interactopia wrote:It's not a replacement for other audio-to-MIDI technology because it's aimed at people who might not even know what MIDI is.
Now I do realize the standalone routing is a huge pain (or even a show-stopper) when it comes to a studio setup, and I'm not going to wait until the end of the beta to do the portwork---that would be an awful mistake. But I have my priorities, and I'm sticking to them
That says a lot right there.

You expect someone who doesn't know what MIDI is to know how to do somewhat complex routing into a DAW? No offence, but are you truly that set in delusion? If this is aimed at people who might not know what MIDI is, then your priority needs to be simplicity on their end. It might be part of your endgame plan to do it, but you making statements like the above and seemingly putting your own foot in your mouth is not the best way to get people on your side.

Also, don't mention your finances. If I was someone who bought into your product and was angry at this point about development only to see you saying how you're living off the income generated by a product that is years in development with such disappointing progression, I'd be really pissed off. To me as an outsider, it looks like you're living off people and slacking off on development because for the progress you've made, I can see no way you're putting 8 hours a day into working on this. If I'm incorrect and you are throwing 8 hours a day into it, then the incompetence surrounding the project is astounding.

Sorry to be so direct about this but I've seen the project posted in multiple people and in my eyes, you're abusing the money you received from the KS and that really REALLY pisses me off when people do that because it makes it harder for legitimate people to post legitimate products on KS and reach goal because people from the past have abused the system.

Post

There's no contradiction there, actually.

Routing with the standalone is a pain in a studio setup where the user wants to use a single low-latency recording interface for recording and output, and simultaneously enable audio recording in their DAW and pitch tracking in imitone. In this case, VST is the superior format because it averts issues with device exclusivity or stream-fighting.

To set up VST, the user needs to create tracks for imitone and the instrument and routings between them. Depending on the DAW, changing imitone will probably require these routings to be manually revised or changed with some kind of shortcut.

As to the user who doesn't know what MIDI is: They can open imitone, followed by their DAW. imitone gets priority on the recording device, and the only DAW set-up is selecting imitone as the MIDI input (which is automatic in many cases). At that point, the user clicks on an instrument and sings; no routing required. The key idea here is that the novice user can get on their feet in minutes without needing to know much about their DAW---and a great many of my users are trying to use imitone to take their first steps.


Regarding finance, I'm happy to refund your order, if you've made one. If you didn't order, that's wise: Buying a promise is more dangerous than buying a product---and so is selling one.

Regarding incompetence, you've got a point: This project should have finished long ago. Somebody more knowledgeable and more qualified should have completed it decades before I did, because it's just obvious. And they've tried: the earliest of the 40-odd predecessors I've identified came out in the early 80s. I was introduced to a DSP pioneer who patented a closely-related technology in 1992! But for one reason or another, the luminaries who came before stopped short, leaving a college dropout from Iowa with no education in DSP to finish their work.

And here's what that dropout learned, one year in: A pound of engineering can't replace an ounce of science, and science is slow.
imitone: transform your voice into any instrument.

Post

Well, since you already have the standalone and nobody is suggesting that you drop it, I still fail to see the problem with the VST version for all the people who will have none of the problems you describe.

If you don't want to release it publicly yet to reduce support, you could limit it to the backers of the Kickstart campaign or a select circle of betatesters (makes sense anyway at the beginning).
And you would get valuable feedback from those pros that may even benefit the non-music-people.

Recently you said on several occasions that the VST port will be trivial, so if that is true, I can't see what harm it does if the overall schedule that is off by a lot already is off by another "1 or 2 weeks" as you said on Twitter. At least all the people who backed you because of the VST would be off your back and could contribute instead of feeling slighted.

As for the VST setup: This is the live setup in Bitwig Studio - create an audio or hybrid track, select the microphone input, put Imitone (or in this case Midi Guitar) on the track and after it the instrument you want to play (in this case Kontakt).
Sing away.

Image

:shrug:

To record the Midi, yes you need another track, the second having the input set to the Imitone track. Not too hard either.


I still hope you change your mind. :hug:

Cheers,

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi
Sculptures ScreenDream Mastodon

Post

interactopia wrote:There's no contradiction there, actually.
You missed the point completely there. I've never once met someone who knew how to do that kind of routing in a DAW that didn't know what MIDI is or how to use it. Allow me to quote you again:
It's not a replacement for other audio-to-MIDI technology because it's aimed at people who might not even know what MIDI is.
If they know how to route that to the DAW, they would probably know how to use MIDI which invalidates the point. Plus, they will still need to setup a plugin library and make edits once they record because... well, that's production so they had better know how to use and edit MIDI. What you should be saying is that "this is a program designed to simplify the MIDI process for people who don't know how to play an instrument, for people who travel and don't have the space for a MIDI instrument or for people who have a traditional instrument and wish to use it to trigger MIDI for easier recording".

I'm not sure how I'd feel about Imitone having priority over the DAW but that's a topic I'm not even going to get into.

On the finance issue, you either once again miss the point, are refusing to address it or simply don't know anything about proper PR. I've not bought your product so I have no investment in you and as I said, I'm replying as an outsider as I've seen you make every mistake in the book you can make apart from cancelling the whole project so here is a tip: don't talk about your personal finances with people. They are more worried about you delivering the product than telling them how much a month you're living on. Especially when I'm sure a lot of the people who bought your product are living on a hell of a lot less money a month than you are and probably work twice as hard to make it. It's bad form overall and comes off as insulting.

Lastly, as interactopia said, you made a promise to people in KS for a VST version and I'm sure many of them bought for that rather than a standalone product. You need to do right by them and get it done. Will it put you back a couple weeks while you work on it? Sure, but being as you've already put years of development into this, a couple weeks to deliver a promise is nothing and at the very least, you owe the people who backed your project.

Honestly, all I've seen from you is excuses. Time to man up, mate. Especially if you want a future in this industry after you finally finish with this because you're severely tarnishing your reputation and no one is ever going to want to support anything you do ever again if you break promises like you have or constantly make excuses.

That is all, I'm taking my leave from this thread now.

Post

I think its a wrap. :(

Is this roughly how this has gone?- Dev was painstakingly convinced of the interest in a vst, said it was being started, disappeared for a few months, then returns to say he was mistaken in promising a vst, citing a double-down on the grand scale of the project, and the apparently recent revelation that there is already a competing plugin available that is deemed 'good enough'. All the while, living on KS money?

This new wrinkle re: dumbed down implementation to support ubiquitous use is some weird shit. What are we imagining the grandest scale of use for this tech even is? There is this implied disregard for vst as if there is a larger vision, but I have some trouble imagining a long list of profitable uses..
ImageImageImageImage

Post

It's really clear that you don't understand your target market at all. If you want this to be for the casual user, it needs to be an iOS app with an internal synth and a four track recorder. End of story.

Otherwise, who are these mythical users who don't know what midi is but use DAWs and plugins and can route midi from your standalone application?
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

Post

deastman wrote:Otherwise, who are these mythical users who don't know what midi is but use DAWs and plugins and can route midi from your standalone application?
Image
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.

Post Reply

Return to “Instruments”