Common, everyday arguing about drum machines and everything that could be considered as a DM.

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:hug:

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Boom says kick.

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chk071 wrote:I prefer to do drum or percussion sounds with "general purpose" synths rather than drum synths. I feel it is more flexible, and you also learn more about synthesis that way. My 2c. What would be really awesome would be to have a drum machine which can host VSTi's. Dunno why no dev ever thought or considered that. Or did one?
Almost every good sounding synthesizer is able to produce drums or percussive sounds.

This said, some drum machines of the past had a special circuitry for some sounds, rarely or never found on standard synthesizers. This include envelopes, filters etc ( Like the original TR-808 ) Modern drum machines sometimes propose some synthesis methods not found on other synths. As an example : StiX R-Claps envelopes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2toH0SimEk

Usefull to make not only .. claps, but also a lot of other things ( Fx, ruffs, Rolls, Special Fx, finger snaps etc )

I generally find that the more options, the better. But specialised machines that only do one thing but do it well are also welcomed and desirable. Actually, it all depends on your needs.
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77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there

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the oscillator/harmonics/membrane in Tremor is a good example of something you don't see in everyday VST synths.
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CrystalWizard wrote:the oscillator/harmonics/membrane in Tremor is a good example of something you don't see in everyday VST synths.
+1

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Tremor's Harmonic oscillator is rather special. It's really elaborate and it needs some study to get the best out of.

However, I don't think that the Stix R-clap envelope mentioned above is a good example of what a specialist drum synth can offer vs 'normal' synths. The R-Clap envelope is based on a 'looped envelope'. Any synth that has a looped envelope and which can be assigned to modulate 'noise' can do the same function. Additionally, we now have LFOs, that can have different waveform slopes so one of those can mimic a looped envelope that has custom slopes easily, if custom slopes are crucial to someone. Other drum synths also have a specialist 'clap' envelope (with rate and number of repeats), Tremor has it, so does Sonic Charge's Microtonic and maybe others which I haven't looked at.

When speaking of 'normal' synths (not designed to be specific drum synth/sequencers), then U-He's Zebra should be mentioned. It's an excellent drum synthesiser. Maybe U-he could do well to enter the drum synth/sequencer market with something based on the modular design of Zebra. All those juicy synthesis options, elaborate envelopes, physical modeling...

Also, Tassman is not thought of as a drum synth/sequencer but it can fulfil these roles with ease. It's capable of some unique drum sounds. Again, maybe AAS should repackage Chromaphone into a drum sequencer?
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VSTi and hardware synth sound design
3D/5D sound design since 2012

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Strobe/cypher can loop envelopes too. I always thought that was really cool.

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himalaya wrote: However, I don't think that the Stix R-clap envelope mentioned above is a good example of what a specialist drum synth can offer vs 'normal' synths. The R-Clap envelope is based on a 'looped envelope'. Any synth that has a looped envelope and which can be assigned to modulate 'noise' can do the same function. Additionally, we now have LFOs, that can have different waveform slopes so one of those can mimic a looped envelope that has custom slopes easily, if custom slopes are crucial to someone......
StiX R-Claps envelopes are not looping envelopes. They are modelled on the Tr-808 clap VCA EVs topology. So they are a vintage iteration of multistage envelopes.

We exposed some parameters to musicians, and added some, like the slope.

Then the R-Claps envelopes SEGMENTS can be modulated, for each sequencer step, by the LFOs, by oscillators, by the polystep, well pretty much by everything. This makes a BIG difference.

As for modulating only white noise, yes they can modulate white noise, a splendid variety of *noises* btw due to StiX Fm synthesis at audio rate for example. But they can also modulate a couple hundreds more paremeters, or be the operators of any morphing analog/cross synthesis/FM/Sample manipulations.

I dont know many multistage envelopes, precisely modelled on vintage analog gear, whose segments can be modulated in real time, in a lot of ways. As such, they are special envelopes, and people wont find them in many synthesizers, if only one, or drum machines etc including other Xils-Lab instruments. Also very simple to operate, just turn a couple of knobs, use your ears, and there it is . And you have 3 of them (Hwed to Oscillators, Filter, Pitch EV, though you can use them via the different matrixes to modualte anything like mentioned above)
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77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there

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Looped or multi-stage....in this context it looks like the same thing.
It can be said that the looped envelope is build out of multiple stages. You have control over the number of repeats (stages) and the rate of repeat in the looped envelope (e.g.: Tremor or Microtonic) and the supposed multi-stage-envelope (Stix). Same thing.

The ability to use individual envelope segments as modulation destinations in "real time "is certainly superb, but it's not exclusive to Stix. I don't know off hand how many synths have it but three that spring to mind are Omnisphere, Zebra2 and FXpansion's Synth Squad. In Synth Squad each envelope can be looped, with exponential/linear slope options, and each stage can be modulated, by anything and everything, even sequencer steps, or even (check this out!) other synths in the modular environment of Fusor! Tremor's envelope stages can be modulated in the same manner.

Just remembered that Tone2 synths have each envelope stage exposed in the mod matrix, so similar modulation is possible here as well, although I don't think the envelopes can be looped (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

But then, even if a synth does not allow to modulate envelope stages, similar modulation can be achieved by using other means, LFOs, step sequencers or modualtors (modulating a sound that is itself sequenced), other multistage envelopes (Alchemy springs to mind).

As to envelopes being precisely modelled on vintage analog drum machines, that's great I suppose, I love vintage stuff, but the better examples of 'digital' envelopes appear to be more than good enough and do not lack any vintage mojo, as far as I can tell.
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design
3D/5D sound design since 2012

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http://mfberlin.de/en/device/mfb-tanzbaer-lite-en/

This could be nice. Bit pricey maybe?

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Wonder how that new Behringer manages in drum synthesizing :D

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New inear display plug is cool ^^

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So the general quit arguing about drum machines. :lol:

There are barely any drum machine emulations/drum synths for 64-bit Windows.


Vintage Drum Elements
http://www.samplescience.ca/2015/08/vin ... ments.html
Drum Pro (sampled)
https://www.studiolinked.com/drum-pro/

Magware

Groove Machine CM
AudioRealism ADM CM
MiniBit CM (Not primarily a drum synth, but good simple drum sounds)

The description for ADM CM implies that you can import you own samples, but I haven't been able to do it. When I import samples, they won't play and then switch back to the regular CM-ones.

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Aryaroman wrote:So the general quit arguing about drum machines. :lol:
I WON'T let the thread fade away! :D

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that's alright, we'll upgrade the OS so users won't care about your thread any more and they'll have to buy all new threads from suckers who like to milk you instead of threads made with authentic consideration for percussion synthesis.

then act all surprised, why can't i get this thing?

hey is that new thing with the sine oscillator and the noise and the sample ready yet? stoooner is made by drugs and i won't use those because society told me to keep up with some noxious bullshit sold by hideous cretins. see how crazy the developer is talking.

danger.
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