Synclavier Soft synth/emulators?

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ENV1 wrote:That Mama lead is called 'Strange Voices' and the Synclavier V has it too.

Unfortunately it sounds nothing like on the real Synclavier II...even the preset i made on the CS-80 years ago sounds a lot closer.


Heres some comparison audio, in case youre curious.

First you hear the original Synclavier II preset, then the Synclavier V version of the preset, then the above mentioned CS-80 preset.

click
I don't know the presets of the full version, but the demo version of Synclavier V has a preset called "Voices 1":

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/mud5omrdeelm6z0/Voices1.mp3

It's a pure additive sound without FM, only using the first 3 harmonics and some detuning / vibrato.

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maybe what is really needed is an expansion preset library for the Synclavier V instead of yet another emulation?

maybe Rubini and Jaeger as well as some others could be hired to make sounds for this?

as it stands now the Audio-Term II examples on soundcloud more represent the sounds i remember most from the original.

surely the Arturia could make these exact sounds?
"..What is simple, is simply seen.."

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blacktomcat666 wrote:I don't know the presets of the full version, but the demo version of Synclavier V has a preset called "Voices 1"

It's a pure additive sound without FM, only using the first 3 harmonics and some detuning / vibrato.
Yeah, thats more like it.

Seems that guy on korgforums was wrong (i have it from him that the presets name is Strange Voices), because when you read the description of the video more closely he (the guy who posted the video) could have simply meant that the voices 'sound strange'. That would also explain why the Strange Voices preset isnt in the 'Original' category, but in the Factory category.

But what a coincidence that a preset with exactly that name would show up in the Synclavier V. To me it seemed, if anything, like confirmation, since the preset was at least similar.

Anyway, Voices 1 seems to be the one, even if its still a little different from how it sounds on the real Synclavier II.

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nexussynth wrote:maybe what is really needed is an expansion preset library for the Synclavier V instead of yet another emulation?

maybe Rubini and Jaeger as well as some others could be hired to make sounds for this?

as it stands now the Audio-Term II examples on soundcloud more represent the sounds i remember most from the original.

surely the Arturia could make these exact sounds?
Indeed I think it's mainly a question of programming. In Synclavier V you have to be much more careful if you want a "nice" sound when doing FM on complex waves.

Btw. the ATII sound examples are only some "random" test settings + some parameter twiddling. I didn't care much about sound design in that early stage. It's what you get "out of the box".

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blacktomcat666 wrote:
ENV1 wrote:That Mama lead is called 'Strange Voices' and the Synclavier V has it too.

Unfortunately it sounds nothing like on the real Synclavier II...even the preset i made on the CS-80 years ago sounds a lot closer.


Heres some comparison audio, in case youre curious.

First you hear the original Synclavier II preset, then the Synclavier V version of the preset, then the above mentioned CS-80 preset.

click
I don't know the presets of the full version, but the demo version of Synclavier V has a preset called "Voices 1":

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/mud5omrdeelm6z0/Voices1.mp3

It's a pure additive sound without FM, only using the first 3 harmonics and some detuning / vibrato.
Yes, that "Voice 1" preset seems to nail the original sound in Mama MUCH better, actually it even seems to be close to being perfect. Many thnks for that. :)
I was not finished checking all presets yet so sooner or later i guess i would have checked that Voices 1 preset too.

You seem to be right about it being mostly an additive sound. As i alraedy mentioned i alraedy got somehow closer when removing the FM from the "Strange Voices" preset while teh "Voices 1" is much better indeed.



UPDATE:
Just tried creating a similar patch in my Novation Ultranova by using 3 Sine Oscs, each tuned to replace the first 3 additive harmonics (and the volumes adjusted comparable to the 3 harmonics in the Synclavier patch). For making the sound "bigger" i used the "Density" feature in the OScs that is comparable to a Hypersaw but works for all waveforms (and does not reduce the voices, opposing to the Unison). This results in a sound comparable to using multiple detuned Oscs or the "Voice Chorus" feature in Synclavier V.
Also added some vibrato to the resulting sound. Adding a Lowpass filter (no envelope modulation) also helps to get rid of some of teh high frequencies (and also to get the sound even closer to that in Synclavier V).

So far it is maybe not 100% identical on the UltraNova but already very close and also nice as it is. With some additional tweaking it could maybe get even closer. I did not try using the wavetables and additional single digital waveforms in the UltraNova yet, just using 3 Sine Oscs to replicate a VERY simple additive synth.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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blacktomcat666 wrote:AudioTerm II has a similar structure to the Synclavier, but there are also some differences:

1. FM in ATII has no audible aliasing. This is achieved by a combination of oversampling and adjusting the fm index depending on modulator / carrier freqs and the harmonic content of the carrier waves.

2. The envelopes allow adjusting the curve shape (similar to what we know from FM7/8) and the modulation of the time segments also works in realtime (on Synclavier V you have to retrigger that segement - dunno what's better, maybe it's best to let the user decide...)

3. The chorus voices can be "started" without retriggering the note. The detuning can also set back to 1.0 without level jumps or static phasing. The engine does a frequency comparison of the oscillators within a timbre and does a smoothed enabling / disabling / level adjustment for the chorus voices.

4. It has 64 harmonic partials and 128 time frames (btw., the later versions of the Synclavier could do up to 128 for resynthesis).

5. The timbre frame sequencing in AT II works more like a true wave sequencer. It calculates the slot volumes individually and then does a crossfade between the scaled signals (adjustable between lin and log). Synclavier V works different here and also lacks the frame loop function.

6. AT II can have random detuning per note and per timbre frame slot. Also it can do fixed frequency fm in the range from 1 - 999 Hz.

7. The LFOs in AT II also have global modes, an extended range (up to 200 Hz) and some more parameters. Further there's a "smoothed random" wave available.

The idea was to add a different "flavor" to the "Synclavier FM idea", but not to make a 1:1 emulation. All in all ATII sounds "smoother" and more "hi -fi", but lacks the agressive / gritty side of the Synclavier V.
Where can one find AudioTerm II?
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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Still under development. First it was scheduled for summer, but I had / have to make some longer breaks because of my health. And some parts took longer than I expected. I didn't know about Synclavier V until march 2016. Otherwise I'd never started this project. Now it's kinda obsolete... not for my personal use as I can't afford Synclavier V, but for most people it is. And in regard to Cameron's fund raising project it could be a legal issue now (well, it always was - ATII is full of my ideas and solutions, but it's obvious where the basic structure is "stolen" from).

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i sincerely hope you will not abandon development of AT-II i don't think you will have to worry about Arturia. your instrument is different enough and it is freeware?

Cameron Jones may have ported his original software to modern PC hardware with Synclavier V, but it seems to me something is amiss. your demos sound more like the Synclavier i remember from countless movies and film scores.

AT-II is good enough to pay for. perhaps a donation button?

sorry about your health issues ( i know very well of such myself!). hopefully you will be inspired by this thread to persevere.

and remember, Alonso and Jones 'stole' FM from Yamaha at the beginning.
"..What is simple, is simply seen.."

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blacktomcat666 wrote:Still under development. First it was scheduled for summer, but I had / have to make some longer breaks because of my health. And some parts took longer than I expected. I didn't know about Synclavier V until march 2016. Otherwise I'd never started this project. Now it's kinda obsolete... not for my personal use as I can't afford Synclavier V, but for most people it is. And in regard to Cameron's fund raising project it could be a legal issue now (well, it always was - ATII is full of my ideas and solutions, but it's obvious where the basic structure is "stolen" from).
Oh man, I had no idea. I'm sorry to hear that. I don't think "basic structure" is something that could cause a legal issue or how would every three osc mono synth with a 24 db ladder filter get away with it? It also does seem like your product is far enough away from the Synclavier anyway. I'm no software developer (I've had engineers laugh at my code) but maybe instead of thinking AudioTerm 2 is obsolete, think of this as the opportunity to take what you have and keep going until you have something unique. If you need UI work, PM me, I'd happily donate my time to a project like this.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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Please do continue with Audio Term2... you will be surprised at how many musicians cannot afford Synclavier vst or any other software for that matter.

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Ingonator wrote:Yes, that "Voice 1" preset seems to nail the original sound in Mama MUCH better, actually it even seems to be close to being perfect.
Can also easily be recreated with FM8 (use two carriers with waveform 1+2+3 saw).
Patch available on request.

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Did you guys see this Synclavier-V video yet? I just watched it yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYO55G959uc

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Chris-S wrote:
Ingonator wrote:Yes, that "Voice 1" preset seems to nail the original sound in Mama MUCH better, actually it even seems to be close to being perfect.
Can also easily be recreated with FM8 (use two carriers with waveform 1+2+3 saw).
Patch available on request.
Hi,

many thanks for the hint, actually i tried in Fm8 aöraedy but so far i liked teh results in other synths better. Besides teh original patch ion Synclavier V (where i alrady own a license as part of V-Collection V and i love that plugin...) as alraeyd mentined i got a very nice result in my Novation UltraNova hardware synth (using Sine Oscs and teh Density feature in the OScs to make it "bigger"). Also got a nice i nreauts in teh upcoming Tone2 Icarus using the built-in additive wavefom editor and the "Stereo Hypersaw" Unison modes to make it "bigger" (comparble to the Density feture in the UltraNova).

So currently i got it in the 3 synths that recently were used most of te time. Maybe will also recreate it in addiotinal synths if necessary.

I agree that once you know how it is done (e.g. based on the Synclavier V patch) it is quite simple.

To get a big/fat sound you would need multiple detuned Oscs, a Hypersaw/Density feature like in Icarus/UltraNova or an Unison (best with Stereo Spread like in e.g. FM8) or a Chrous/Ensemble FX which so far was not necessary in the synths i used. The Synclvaier got the "Voice Chorus" feature for that which in many cases seems to be better than using a Chorus/Ensemble FX.
Without a way to make a sound big/fat with the options just mentionend that "Mama" sound seems to be a bit boring and/or not so nice.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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For those of you who have Sonigen Modular, heres two 'Voices 1' presets for you.

The one postfixed 'Old' is an old version (from before i had the audio from the real SC II) and it sounds much like the CS-80 preset from the comparison clip.

The one postfixed 'New' is based on the old one but has some Chorus and Unison added to make it thicker. Its much closer to the real SC II preset, but also way more busy, so the old one might actually be preferable in some cases.

Both presets also had some Portamento added. Just reset it to zero and resave if you think it gets in the way.

ZIP in attachment.
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And here the patch for FM8.
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