Mixing levels for newbie

[Rhytenow]

So I'm attempting to do my first mix ever. I have a couple of questions. I'm using all synths for my instruments. As far as setting the initial levels to begin balancing the mix do I set the initial levels through the volumes in the synth (Ass opposed to using the faders)? I read in an article that stated I should start by using the volume in my synths to set the levels for the faders. I've also heard that I should initially try to make sure the levels from my synths max out at -12dB? Then I should begin balancing my mix by using the fader to set individual levels for each instrument? Also since I'm using a lot of synths (mainly for pads and leads) how do I determine if I should leave them mono or stereo?

[nickamandote]

it depends on the genre. you can also start with the kick hitting around -10 dbs

[BertKoor]

The last question is easiest: whenever in doubt leave it stereo. (some engineers default to mono instead with equal success) You could go through all the channels and listen with the instrument soloed whether mono/stereo makes any difference. But for what benefit exactly?

Levelling or Gain Staging.. there are probably some good books written about it. Yes it's good practice to start with all channels coming into the mixer in equal strength. Then the fader position gives visual clues about what is set soft and what set loud. And you can put compressors and other insert effects there that depend on input level, and worry less about the settings. The threshold level is a very important parameter on compressors. With different track levels that will go all over the place.

[Virtualex_HS]

So I'm attempting to do my first mix ever. I have a couple of questions. I'm using all synths for my instruments. As far as setting the initial levels to begin balancing the mix do I set the initial levels through the volumes in the synth (Ass opposed to using the faders)? I read in an article that stated I should start by using the volume in my synths to set the levels for the faders. I've also heard that I should initially try to make sure the levels from my synths max out at -12dB? Then I should begin balancing my mix by using the fader to set individual levels for each instrument? Also since I'm using a lot of synths (mainly for pads and leads) how do I determine if I should leave them mono or stereo?

Hey Rhytenow,

first let me emphasize that I am fairly new to the music production thing (started fall last year). So I am far from qualified to answer your question.

Still, as I am somewhat in the same situation than you, here is what I have learned: If you are new to the subject -> forget about the whole mastering hassle!

You'll waste days and weeks and months and you ain't gonna get it right.

If you achieve a perfectly balanced mix with all you synths peaking at -12db and THEN you start to master the thing you will end with something different ... tweeking one element always has side effects and you'll be astonished what compressors, limiters, eqs, exciters, tubes and whatever can do to parts of your sound that you actually don't want to touch.

My experience is: If you aren't pro, mastering from -12db will leave you with a sound you didn't have in mind in the first place.

Today, I start "the mastering" after the very first elements of my track are done - that's usually a multi band compressor with some "clean sound" preset added to the master and I am aiming for 0db.

Then when I add elements I am forced to "tune" them accordingly - I am actually only doing the mixing of the elements. When the track is done, it's done.

My mastering usually only consists of checking the sound on different speakers and fine tuning the thing.

If you are starting at -12db it is NOT fine tuning .

cheers and good luck
Virtualex

https://soundcloud.com/virtualex_german ... -virtualex

[ere2learn]

You could try the pink noise mixing technique to get a quick balanced level mix going at the start

Pink noise test tone link,its at the bottom of this page
http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_hig ... naudio.php

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUaok-7-2L4

[Doug1978]

The last question is easiest: whenever in doubt leave it stereo. (some engineers default to mono instead with equal success) You could go through all the channels and listen with the instrument soloed whether mono/stereo makes any difference. But for what benefit exactly?

Levelling or Gain Staging.. there are probably some good books written about it. Yes it's good practice to start with all channels coming into the mixer in equal strength. Then the fader position gives visual clues about what is set soft and what set loud. And you can put compressors and other insert effects there that depend on input level, and worry less about the settings. The threshold level is a very important parameter on compressors. With different track levels that will go all over the place.

Some good advice by Bert here, and in addition I'd recommend checking out SoundonSound articles for gain staging / mixing level advice.

However, Rhytenow, I'd stress that in terms of stereo / mono, think about stereo as an effect rather than as an essential component to every element.
(After all, stereo actually is an invented effect which only creates an illusion of multi-directional audible perspective).

For example, wide expansive pads or string noises could benefit from filling up the stereo field, whilst synth bass could happily be panned dead centre and in mono (unless there are some additional stereo effects that you wish to highlight). Likewise, with synth lead sounds choice of mono or stereo depends on what effect you're after - thin clarity or huge blast etc.
It is wrong to think about stereo as default. Aside from anything else, you will create more room for other instruments if you monoize those sounds which don't need to smear the stereo landscape.

[Doug1978]

first let me emphasize that I am fairly new to the music production thing (started fall last year). So I am far from qualified to answer your question.

Still, as I am somewhat in the same situation than you, here is what I have learned: If you are new to the subject -> forget about the whole mastering hassle!

You'll waste days and weeks and months and you ain't gonna get it right.

If you achieve a perfectly balanced mix with all you synths peaking at -12db and THEN you start to master the thing you will end with something different ... tweeking one element always has side effects and you'll be astonished what compressors, limiters, eqs, exciters, tubes and whatever can do to parts of your sound that you actually don't want to touch.

My experience is: If you aren't pro, mastering from -12db will leave you with a sound you didn't have in mind in the first place.

Today, I start "the mastering" after the very first elements of my track are done - that's usually a multi band compressor with some "clean sound" preset added to the master and I am aiming for 0db.

Then when I add elements I am forced to "tune" them accordingly - I am actually only doing the mixing of the elements. When the track is done, it's done.

My mastering usually only consists of checking the sound on different speakers and fine tuning the thing.

If you are starting at -12db it is NOT fine tuning .

Virtualex

First, a very well mixed song Virtualex (and particularly impressive for someone who hasn't been mixing for too long).

However, some of your advice above is wrong - the OP is not trying to fine-tune a mix when his initial synth sounds are feeding into his console / DAW console.
And he certainly isn't try to master it at -12DB!!
The OP states that he is still trying to initially mix and balance the levels, starting with the good amount of headroom that -12DB gives him.
So -12db sounds like a very sensible level to start off from, and I think Rhytenow has a good approach to initial level balancing.


Also, mastering is not the same process as mix finalizing (which is what it sounds like you are referring to) - though in fairness to you, the boundaries between the two have become closer in recent years.

I don't buy into your idea of ''the whole mastering hassle'' taking weeks/months etc, and neither should you or anybody else.
You can easily start to get your head around mastering, and how it truly differs from mix finalizing etc, in a couple of days by reading ''Mastering Audio - The Art and the Science'' by arguably the master on the subject, Bob Katz.
http://www.digido.com/

All that said, it is clear that your actual mixing skills are coming along well. But don't confuse the language!

[filkertom]

Various and sundry great advice up there, especially Doug1978's bit on stereo! I'd also recommend Graham Cochrane's http://therecordingrevolution.com/ , as well as his YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/recordingrevolution . LOTS of great, free information.

I've been getting good results by starting the mix in mono -- that way, if you hear everything, you know your balance is good. I usually leave everything as mono except the drum kit (I don't mix the drums separately, at least not now), unless there's only one instrument playing, or it's a really cool stereo ambient effect I'm using as a soundscape. Mono instruments, even synths, are just fine.

I also shoot for individual track levels around -18 db, the sweet spot in the meter where it transitions from green to yellow. It's there for a good reason: I've found that, if everything hovers around there, your Master level (assuming its fader is at 0.0) usually ends up around -6 db, which gives you plenty of headroom for mastering. Remember that the ultimate goal is to have your final track not exceed 0.0 -- I usually go for about -2.0 -- and starting your individual tracks at lower levels pretty much eliminates clipping.

Good luck with everything!

[Astralv]

When checking the levels of instruments, make sure that the output of soft synth is not in red zone inside the instrument. Then look at your track and make sure no tracks are in red. Then mix your levels by ear. Your Master output should be slightly below 0 Db. Everything else is your creative view. As time will pass, your liking will change. You will like your drums louder one year, next year you will start hearing that your pads could be more loud, the next year... It always changes for me as I getting better at it. That is all. Mixing is simple. Add some EQ on your drums and bass to get rid of low frequencies to avoid rattle the speakers at high volumes. I learned that mixes tend to ramble in the club settings (or live PA systems). Put some compression on some tracks with many spikes. Buy some good mastering program like Izotope Ozone. It has mastering presets.

I had to edit my post for the post before me. Why leave anything in MONO? That makes no sense. Synths are made for stereo. They pan left/right and this is the purpose. Many complicated synth sound presets already have pan set up to be +30 for one instrument and -20 for another- why would you want it to become MONO?

Green zone? Master to -6? I master to 0 Db and still have my mixes lower than other producers. If I had it at -6, it would be a whisper. I mix to below Zero and let Master compress it and enhance it to Zero, which perceived as louder than it was without being over zero. There is no need to mix to any -12. The Broadcast excuse is irrelevant. We don't mix for radio now days. Internet radio is ok with 0Db.

[Doug1978]

Astralv (and anyone else who again misses the point of what the original post says) - the OP is NOT MIXING to -12db.
That is Rhytenow's initial level balance from his synths.
He is starting to mix after this initial synth level balance.

Leaving around 12 db of headroom to mix with (or as filkertom sensibly advises, after mixing leaving approx 3-2db for mastering) is good practice.
And AstralV - filkertom is not advising mastering to -6DB, as you state.
He is advising starting the mastering process at that level, after the mixing has finished.
Also don't confuse Ozone's ''mastering'' presets with an actual mastering process.
There are very good (and inexpensive) reasons to use mix finalizing software like Ozone (I use mix finalizer software myself sometimes, as opposed to professional mastering, depending upon the degree to which I want the finished track to stack up against commercial artists).
But Mix Finalizing with 'mastering presets' in something like Ozone is still called 'poor man's mastering' for a reason.
I again advise reading Bob Katz's oracle, linked above, about actual mastering processes.

In passing, there are advantages and disadvantages in terms of mixing levels high, or leaving a little headroom for a track's dynamics to 'breathe'.
It depends upon the genre of the music (EDM vs ambient/new age synth music for example) and your desire/need to compete with other tracks' volume.
And for anyone suggesting that the OP should mix his tracks to zero DB, note that he has not yet specified what genre of synth music he is making. We don't yet know if he wants to slam the meters or not.


AstralV - again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with what Filkertom is suggesting in the post above yours.
Perhaps you like everything in stereo? It's your artist vision and is as subjectively good as anyone else's if it finishes your track in a way that you like.
But many of us prefer to put synth bass in mono (not least because some of the problems associated with stereo effects that can really f**k up bass when heard in a club).
Similarly there are excellent reasons to monoize some synth lead effects, as put above.



@Rhytenow - your current method with your synth input levels is a good one. There is no harm sticking to it, unless you see a better design or workflow reason for changing it.
Be wary of subjective preferences being stated dubiously as objective 'advice' on this thread.

[Ichad.c]

Some good advice here! Just my 2cents -> whatever you choose, the most important thing is to always monitor your mixes at the same (analog) level. Because I have passive monitors my power-amp is marked to always get a consistent level. Playing with the master volume knob is a recipe for disaster IMHO.

[simon.a.billington]

So I'm attempting to do my first mix ever. I have a couple of questions. I'm using all synths for my instruments. As far as setting the initial levels to begin balancing the mix do I set the initial levels through the volumes in the synth (Ass opposed to using the faders)? I read in an article that stated I should start by using the volume in my synths to set the levels for the faders. I've also heard that I should initially try to make sure the levels from my synths max out at -12dB? Then I should begin balancing my mix by using the fader to set individual levels for each instrument? Also since I'm using a lot of synths (mainly for pads and leads) how do I determine if I should leave them mono or stereo?

Yes. Use your synth volumes, but really you should be looking for sustained sounds to be around -18 to -20 dBFS, which should be measured with an RMS Meter or a Loudness Meter (Short-Term). With peaks and percussive sounds hitting around -3 to -6 dBFS.

...Or thereabouts.

With every process you add make sure the plugin at roughly the same level.

Otherwise you could run the risk of distorting the signal in between plugins or lose signal which may ultimately contribute to noise levels.

By setting up a good gain structure right at the start it ensures the best possible signal flow as long as you keep consistent with your gain structure.