2D preset morphing in Reverbical

[RealtimeOnly]

If there would be a continuous preset morphing functionality on the XY-pad grid in a future version of Reverbical, what should it provide and look like in your opinion?

This is continued from another thread:

Given that this is one of the few reverbs that can be successfully automated, patch morphing is an excellent idea - it almost seems that that was what the patch browser interface was designed for, but it wasn't eventually implemented?

Right, it was designed for that from the beginning, still there are several options for how to make it accessible in the UI, so the decision was not to throw out something half baked with the 1.0 version

Great! In my mind I have an image of a 2 dimensional Blackhole style ribbon controller. I can see there are some challenges there though. I like the way that Blackhole locks the two ends of the ribbon but implementing that in 2 dimensions is more challenging and I guess that whilst it would be good to allow users to disperse the patches as they see fit it might also be good to allow some sortable remapping of them too according to selectable criteria (your classification system?).

I'm probably talking out of my ***e though and that is not what you have in mind at all

I would prefer something more multidimensional than a ribbon - more like what I can do already in Kore 2 (this morphs nicely in Kore already). My expectation was that the cursor in the grid would enable you to morph already as you can drag it around but at the moment the change between presets is discontinuous - just making it continuous and allowing for dragging around of grid presets so you can choose which ones are surrounding each other would be ideal for me.

Then since its 2D, it would mix the parameters of the 4 nearest presets (looks like Kore2 does that) ? Another option would be to morph only horizontally, mixing only 2 presets, would be clearer what the outcome is soundwise I guess, but then there are discontinuities when moving vertically..

(btw, preset positions can be swapped with CMD/CTRL-Drag)

[aMUSEd]

Yes, the way Kore 2 does it is you have a grid of 8 variations (sub presets) and can smoothly morph between them - this is true parameter interpolation, not simply crossfading sounds, so obviously only makes sense for continuous parameters, but it looks like most Reverbical params are continuous, not bipolar. I guess if there are any bipolar or multi state discontinuous params though it might make more sense to separate the morphing from the grid (even though my first thought was to integrate the 2, maybe that is harder?) But definitely morphing in more directions than a straight line would be preferred by me (doesn't have to be a grid, could be a circle with equidistant points, grids tend to privilege nearest neighbours).

btw I have tested this out in Kore and Reverbical is one of the few reverbs that can be morphed smoothly without creating all sorts of unwelcome feedback and uncontrollable sounds.

[lnikj]

Alchemy and Kore (I think) do it with 8 - would it be outrageous to do it with 16 in the space available?

Possibly too much effort and people wouldn’t be bothered to use it. Unless some automagical generation was involved.

So, maybe 4 is enough?

[Den*]

I don't see logical explanation for this while we can automate all parameters in Reverbical.

[aMUSEd]

Well yes you can but that's a complex and reductionist way of going about it - If I am morphing between preset variations using Kore for example I just have the X and Y to automate and I can move them with the controller in realtime to affect multiple params all at once - if I wanted to do that with automation I would need to automate all those params separately and lose the immediacy and expressiveness of just doing it in realtime with 2 knobs on my Kore controller.

Musically it also enables you to think on the level of the sound and expressive variations between sounds (particularly timbral ones) rather than params.

[RealtimeOnly]

Yes, the way Kore 2 does it is you have a grid of 8 variations (sub presets) and can smoothly morph between them - this is true parameter interpolation, not simply crossfading sounds, so obviously only makes sense for continuous parameters, but it looks like most Reverbical params are continuous, not bipolar. But definitely morphing in more directions than a straight line would be preferred by me (doesn't have to be a grid, could be a circle with equidistant points, grids tend to privilege nearest neighbours).

Kore 2 looks like a really good example, and yeah the parameters are continuous so that should work out. Not exactly sure with equi-circle, if you mean the distance calculation algorithm or rather the view..possibly the same as using inverse-distance to the preset center in the image below? (from an earlier prototype, and the multi-directional approach is applied)

btw I have tested this out in Kore and Reverbical is one of the few reverbs that can be morphed smoothly without creating all sorts of unwelcome feedback and uncontrollable sounds.

Great to know that

Alchemy and Kore (I think) do it with 8 - would it be outrageous to do it with 16 in the space available?

Actually I think the number of grid elements can stay just the same (96). Morphing would just count in a certain number of neighbouring presets:


(brightness shows the mix amount of each preset)

[lnikj]

Aha! Now this section of the manual makes sense to me:

"A small dot will show the exact position that was clicked, which can be important when automating the grid position, or when using Midi cotrollers.

It didn't when i first read it. Yes, that would be very cool.

[RealtimeOnly]

Yeah youre exactly right with the dot..

[aMUSEd]

Yes, the way Kore 2 does it is you have a grid of 8 variations (sub presets) and can smoothly morph between them - this is true parameter interpolation, not simply crossfading sounds, so obviously only makes sense for continuous parameters, but it looks like most Reverbical params are continuous, not bipolar. But definitely morphing in more directions than a straight line would be preferred by me (doesn't have to be a grid, could be a circle with equidistant points, grids tend to privilege nearest neighbours).

Kore 2 looks like a really good example, and yeah the parameters are continuous so that should work out. Not exactly sure with equi-circle, if you mean the distance calculation algorithm or rather the view..possibly the same as using inverse-distance to the preset center in the image below? (from an earlier prototype, and the multi-directional approach is applied)

What I mean is if we take Kore as an example, if the rectangular grid is numbered 1-8 and I want to morph between 1 and 2 or 1 and 5 they are nearest neighbours so I don't have to go between any other squares, but if I want to morph between 1 and 4 I have to also go through 2 and 3. If instead variations are arranged around a circle then I can choose to go straight from one to another, or around and through adjoining numbers as well.

[RealtimeOnly]

Ok that makes sense and is a quite flexible option. The only downside is it would afford a different view than the grid, which is already there.

[camsr]

I'm for the idea if it does not increase CPU usage to the tune of running 2 instances.