Axe-FX vs amp sims

[zerocrossing]

Why is there so much anti Amplitube sentiment these days? When I was doing amp modeling ITB they seemed all the rage. I thought they were among the best. I still love those Orange models and use the Ampeg bass amps for bass all the time.

I love those Orange models, too, and think that they really hit the nail on the head with the new Mesa collection. I have a couple of Mesas, and these models are nearly perfect, IMHO.

Maybe I'll check those out at some point. I revisited the Orange models again while testing Therimonic and I feel they are really nice, though I've never owned one. I do love the sound of a Mesa though, so if you're saying they nailed it, I bet they're great.

[bharris22]

Don't take my word for it! You seem to have a very discerning ear . Definitely try them out (especially the Mark IV) and let me know what you think.

[EvilDragon]

My "thing" lately is Thermionik's 3-channel Dual Rectifier model. Currently very much digging the Red - Raw channel. Seems to work great with both rhythm and lead, fronted with TSE's 808 (until Kazrog comes up with their own, of course ).

[incubus]

I'm kinda pissed now.

Thinking I'd really like one of those yamy's. Not that I don't like what I have, but all of you know how that works

[egbert]

Try using the cab section of the Amplitube models you like and put the amp sim in front of it. Amplitube is doing more or less the same thing as everyone else with cab modelling/impulses. Plexi and Orange are pretty different characters - and KPA profiles of the two are not similar.

[egbert]

I'm kinda pissed now.

Thinking I'd really like one of those yamy's. Not that I don't like what I have, but all of you know how that works

The original model THR-10 is what I have - there are a couple of others with different sets of amps - one more vintage amp oriented and the other more modern and hi-gain. I was hoping they would bring out something with all their models and more FX. But then I would just waste more time futzing I guess.

I don't know if I would specially recommend the original beige coloured one for people who want to shred on hi-gain models with light strings. The Marshall and Mesa models are fine at low volume and probably would sound much more convincing cranked on headphones. The Lead model is pretty nice for classic rock solo sounds.

I am playing 52-11s and 49-11s and playing cleaner sounds on the crunch amp mostly - it does a warm fender style clean sound very well. The reverb and delay sounds do the job for what I want when practicing and playing for fun at low volumes.

It also has bass, flat and acoustic models which are all pretty useful if you play other instruments.

[incubus]

That one is puzzling to me. I'd want to run direct 99.9% of the time but you have to kind rig it with the phones out. Pretty sure I'll wait and pick up the head with the "tube" change and dual channel (but it will be a few months if at all, the GT100 is plenty good enough unless I start playing more)

[Agreed]

I feel like AT:Mesa is, if nothing else, the best damn Mesa sim out there. S-Gear Wayfarer is eerily good considering it's not actually intending to copy behavior from a specific single real amp, but AT4:Mesa is as close as I have personally got to the real thing so far. A long time ago I thought ReValver had a really good one, not even sure what they're up to lately, but the older version isn't able to box with these AT:Mesa sims. It's kinda neat since I have such a long software history with Amplitube, I can load up the old AT:Metal or AT2 high gain amps and... Yeah... There sure have been some improvements over the years. Feel like it might be time to officially deprecate some older models, even if it does reduce the total gear number. Any case where there's an old one and a new one to compare, I can't see folks choosing the old one.

But I haven't tried Thermionik, and I haven't tried an AxeFX model since the 2000s. I bet they've gotten better in the last eight years, feels like a pretty safe assumption. Also not familiar with the Kempers - that's some neat technology though.

Egbert - this is the first release where I am actually 100% satisfied with Amplitube cab sim. Maybe it's just a better workflow thing with how they're presenting the cab sim now, but I find it really easy to take what I know about cabs and miking and just get to work. It seems to be realistic now. I am still not sure if it's better to do these kinda abstract "but it's really like a cabinet!" attempts at sorta physical modeling it, or just have a solid IR loader and let your users find their own preferred sims. I've had good results from each.

[zerocrossing]

Try using the cab section of the Amplitube models you like and put the amp sim in front of it. Amplitube is doing more or less the same thing as everyone else with cab modelling/impulses. Plexi and Orange are pretty different characters - and KPA profiles of the two are not similar.

I'm done with this experiment. I had an idea that if Therimonic was super good that it might let me get rid of the Kemper to make room for some modular synth gear, but even if it was as good, which I don't think it is, or even close, by the time I got it and nadIR running at high quality I was already up around 30% total CPU use in Live. Considering I also run some effects pre-preamp and post cab, that's already way too much.

I wasn't really commenting that the Plexi and Orange were similar in any way. I was putting the Therimonic Plexi up against a number of different Plexi profiles on the Kemper and the Orange comment was just me mentioning my favorite Amplitube models as a way of voicing my opinion that I still think Amplitube is a good product. I don't like all the models, but I'm not sure why there's such backlash against it.

[egbert]

That one is puzzling to me. I'd want to run direct 99.9% of the time but you have to kind rig it with the phones out. Pretty sure I'll wait and pick up the head with the "tube" change and dual channel (but it will be a few months if at all, the GT100 is plenty good enough unless I start playing more)

THR-10 has USB I/O out so it works as an audio interface. You can record direct digitally - into a DAW and you can also have you DAW playback through the speakers and balance the processed guitar signal with anything coming in from the USB. It is a pity it doesn't have balanced outs. There is a pretty comprehensive editor for all the FX etc - you have more control via the editor app and USB than you have on the controls on the box itself.

The Dual channel head thing hasn't much at all in the way of FX - reverb I think is it although that may include a syncable delay, not sure. I was hoping for something from Yamaha which had all of their DSP code in it. They own Line 6 now so perhaps they are leaving all that stuff to them.

[Agreed]

I haven't really seen a "backlash" exactly but I do think that IKMM has shifted pretty substantially in where their market attentions lie over the years. They've always charged something of a price premium for being the good cross-platform native plugin, but I think now that their individual amp models are on sale a la carte and commanding like $35+ each you see some folks who've been kinda priced out of being IK fans or so they feel. Even though, honestly, the user experience for someone buying just a few great models is better than it was back in AT2 when we already had plenty of models, it's just that nothing was close to 100% yet.

The outstanding models were outstanding because they sounded great and felt good to play on (big difference compared to the shittier low-end hardware units and relatively undeveloped competitors' plugins at the time). Not because they were nailing the real amp every time. So now you can get a good sale deal and pay like $120 or so for a pretty comprehensive setup for what you actually want and need, and you can even have tried it before buying. I think they offer a better package now, but they maybe aren't trying to model the same numbers of gear they used to on a per-release basis. Made easier now by having a massive library of DSP to refer to in the big count, even if it feels a little disingenuous when a lot of the older models aren't keeping up too great. I get it, though, competitors have high gear counts too sometimes.

[egbert]

I can't see "in the box" ever being as quick and convenient as hardware anytime soon. I don't think the KPA has any real competition for what it is. It keeps evolving so I guess it will eventually have an editor and a comprehensive set of FX in the Strymon league. Over the lifetime of the Toaster, Line 6 will have brought out several generations of stuff, each rendering the previous generation almost worthless.

Software developers come and go. Studio Devil is completely inactive for in the box these days for example. Nothing new from NI in ages. Amplitube seems to be all about marketing- and their focus is on iOS etc these days - perhaps they are pissing off their considerable customer base by failing to just get better and easier to use on PC/Mac. I hope Recab makes a go of Thermionik and takes it all the way.

[Agreed]

When my StompIO stops working for ASIO (it's already difficult to use for MIDI stuff compared to earlier versions of Windows, been discontinued for a long time), I may look into a hardware unit to get outside the box. ITB has been great for me since the late 2000s, but stuff really has shifted tremendously and I'm not sure if this will continue to be where the best sound is at. It's pretty telling I think that I am not very out of date on software and the last time I thought about this on purpose until very recently was in like January 2014. Ain't a lot going on. Appreciate the things that do come down the pipeline, though, I'll buy 'em until the next revolution comes I'm sure

[incubus]

That one is puzzling to me. I'd want to run direct 99.9% of the time but you have to kind rig it with the phones out. Pretty sure I'll wait and pick up the head with the "tube" change and dual channel (but it will be a few months if at all, the GT100 is plenty good enough unless I start playing more)

THR-10 has USB I/O out so it works as an audio interface. You can record direct digitally - into a DAW and you can also have you DAW playback through the speakers and balance the processed guitar signal with anything coming in from the USB. It is a pity it doesn't have balanced outs. There is a pretty comprehensive editor for all the FX etc - you have more control via the editor app and USB than you have on the controls on the box itself.

The Dual channel head thing hasn't much at all in the way of FX - reverb I think is it although that may include a syncable delay, not sure. I was hoping for something from Yamaha which had all of their DSP code in it. They own Line 6 now so perhaps they are leaving all that stuff to them.

The lack of FX is totally cool. I always have a bus or whatnot for that stuff. They have the camo one at a GC nearby. I should take a guitar and some cans over there (I'm assuming that phones has the cab ir loaded? )

[egbert]

Yep - full size phone jack with full amp/cab/FX simulation - there's actually more control over the cabs if you use the editor software. You can create a patch and store it on the unit - 5 memory spots only.