KVR Audio

evilantal · Post by **evilantal** » Wed May 04, 2016 8:58 pm

Another vouch for Pianoteq Standard/Pro!

Although when more "character" is needed and playability is less important (rendering midi in the studio) i go for samples like Imperfect Steinway, Cinesamples Piano in Blue, etc
But certainly not Addictive Keys or EasyKeyz. Those are more akin to pianos you might find in hardware workstations or Roland digital pianos IMO. Sometimes useful for quick sketching, though.

bedjka · Post by **bedjka** » Wed May 04, 2016 10:48 pm

Sorry if i made you feel insulted, it was not my intention at all, i may have been a little wrong with my choice of words.
But i am still convinced, and i am not the only one (forums), that there are better sounding and still expressive/playable pianos, than Pianoteq.
The Ravenscroft being, among the few i tried (on a Studiologic SL-990 Pro keyboard), one of them.
Peace!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohhabx9nK4k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVYKKPyYpAI

murnau · Post by **murnau** » Thu May 05, 2016 6:50 am

Don't worry your comments about Pianoteq and your arguments in general shows that you didn't know how a realistic piano sound and we dont even start to talk about "playabilty".

Even the improvisation of OP sounds better then everything you posted here (also i don't get why you post them). You seem to be the typical non piano player which really isn't a problem but coming here talking crap about Pianoteq which is at least since v5 a beautiful product and a class apart is embarrassing.

bedjka · Post by **bedjka** » Thu May 05, 2016 7:55 am

Even the improvisation of OP sounds better then everything you posted here

That statement ( Ravenscroft's demo vs OP's impro, soundwise) will tell people reading this forum, more than enough, whose intervention concerning piano knowledge is the most embarassing!

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu May 05, 2016 8:03 am

Sure it will

I suggest you drop this subject. OK, you've found a virtual piano you like. Guess what, that doesn't make you the judge of what's good or bad objectively (you can only claim that for yourself personally - which makes it subjective). Different people have different needs in a piano sound. Is that hard to understand?

bedjka · Post by **bedjka** » Thu May 05, 2016 8:20 am

Sure it will

That excludes you of course my friend, being as "self brainwashed" about Pianoteq as your fellow dude!

To finish with the subject, so much time/words wasted here when just one (used in various forums) summarizes Pianoteq: "Synthetic".

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu May 05, 2016 8:46 am

Why are you feeling so insecure that you have to insult others if they don't agree with your choice?

Doug1978 · Post by **Doug1978** » Thu May 05, 2016 8:52 am

FWIW, Soniccouture's Hammersmith and (somewhat curiously) Fluffy Audio's My Piano are the two best software pianos I've heard currently.

Though Pianoteq is great for sketching quickly, has very little CPU hit, and comes with a number of excellent expansions, eg vibraphones, church bells and older pianos.

Anyway, nice improv walidantar

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Thu May 05, 2016 11:43 am

bedjka wrote:
Sure it will
That excludes you of course my friend, being as "self brainwashed" about Pianoteq as your fellow dude!

To finish with the subject, so much time/words wasted here when just one (used in various forums) summarizes Pianoteq: "Synthetic".

dont fight people...they all /samples or modellings/ sounds crappy when directly compared to real instruments

and btw: Pianoteq also use samples...same as sample libraries use some kind of modelling

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu May 05, 2016 11:58 am

Pianoteq only uses samples for key and pedal noises, which would take way too much CPU to model accurately considering their stohastic nature. Everything else is fully modelled.

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Thu May 05, 2016 12:03 pm

EvilDragon wrote:Pianoteq only uses samples for key and pedal noises, which would take way too much CPU to model accurately considering their stohastic nature.

right, its known...

EvilDragon wrote: Everything else is fully modelled.

not true at all, sometimes up to half of the instrument sound is missing...

to be true, your CPU should be at least cca 80 core instead of 8

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu May 05, 2016 12:17 pm

kvaca wrote:not true at all, sometimes up to half of the instrument sound is missing...

Haha, nice try.

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Thu May 05, 2016 12:55 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
kvaca wrote:not true at all, sometimes up to half of the instrument sound is missing...
Haha, nice try.

so you want the best typical exaple??? really

if yes - see new Ruckers harpsichord - all harmonic release is completely omitted /cca up too 10 sec long - depending on individual instrument/ and more - the noise part of release is simply sampled, but in very static way /no dynamics, no position dependant change of timbre, no time dependant change of timbre, nothing.../, so: the typical second half of the sound /=the second pluck when key is released/ is either completely missing or inaccurately sampled...ask Pianoteq why

Edit:
the same release problem is /in various degrees/ typical for all Pianoteq instruments...and - to be correct - for majority of sampled keyboards, too!!!
guess why there are no staccato examples in demos

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu May 05, 2016 1:00 pm

You're talking about key release noise. It is there, you can increase its volume in the ACTION panel. There's no dynamics on the harpsichord, especially not with key release noises.

WHAT position dependant change of timbre? Feathers which pluck strings are in a fixed position on a harpsichord, from what I know.

Mind you, there were several harpsichord afficionados participating in the beta tests, so if they deemed the model as worthy instead of at all lacking, like you seem to imply... And these are people who actually own harpsichords I'm talking about. Release noise behaviour was discussed in detail during these tests.

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Thu May 05, 2016 1:20 pm

EvilDragon wrote:You're talking about key release noise. It is there, you can increase its volume in the ACTION panel. There's no dynamics on the harpsichord, especially not with key release noises. WHAT position dependant change of timbre? Feathers which pluck strings are in a fixed position on a harpsichord, from what I know.

Mind you, there were several harpsichord afficionados participating in the beta tests, so if they deemed the model as worthy and not lacking, like you seem to imply... And these are people who actually own harpsichords I'm talking about. I find it really great sounding.

Im talking about harmonic content of release which was completely omitted and cannot be set in any panel...
this release harmonic content has very different overtone structure than first pluck and that is what makes harpsichords so very unique

you typically cannot use this kind of simplification like on Pianoteque harpsichord /fade out+static release noise/ and if you think that there are no dynamics in harpsichord then Im sure you never played one...of course they are not so obvious as in piano

moreover - every release noise is slightly different /same as with any drum hit/ and not the same

/imagine having nicely sampled snare drum but using one sample only for all velocities and all round robins....would you like it that way?/

and more bad news - the specific different harmonic structure of release tone also heavily depends on the time period after the key is pressed and again released - which was omitted here, too...actually it is continually changing over time in a specific way different for every single string, which makes this instrument so hard to accurately sample, too...

my improvisation pianoteq 5 demo