Do All of Today's MIDI Controllers Suck For Controlling VA's?

[rod_zero]

The the keys on that version are not velocity sensitive, that's why I discarded, as well as just 2 octaves.

I think the module is better value as well as it gives you the patch points also, use less space.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

You guys keep forgetting it's actually eurorack version of original synth that comes WITH keyboard.

I didn't forget. I mention the 25-key version in the post right before yours. It's close. I'd want at least 49 keys, velocity, and proper pitch/mod wheels. I think Roland just hates pitch and mod wheels for some crazy reason. My old Roland controller (A-30) had some weird pitch lever thing, and after getting a proper set of pitch and mod wheels, I never want to go back to anything different.

If I were being honest, I'd probably buy a 49-key version even if it didn't have pitch and mod wheels. I just don't get Roland's aversion to them.

But I digress...

[Echoes in the Attic]

Anyways, there are many synths out there that allow full control of every parameter (or every one you'd need for sound design), like the GForce synths, some of the RP synths like predator, the older Tone2 synths, the non-Zebra u-he synths (Zebra is too modular, however the other ones like bazille and ACE even allow automation of the cables so you can turn a knob to change the cable routing), Waldorf synths, Poly-Ana, Sylenth1, Spire (though a lot of controls!), plenty of freebies like OBXD, Dexed, and plenty of little synths like phoscyon and Axon etc. And lots more I'm sure I haven't tried. Arturia has even smartened up lately with the Matrix-12 which is fully automatable. And if you use the Nektar, you could even get great mappings our of Reaktor and Kontakt since the Nektar allows PRESET specific mapping as opposed to the Novation which is plug-in specific.

So yeah people that say you can't get a good hardware experience with plug-ins and a midi controller are full of it. Yes you can, but not with all VSTs of course. You need the type of VST that is designed like hardware and the right midi controller. The ones mentioned above give a very similar experience to using a hardware synth if you lay out the mapping sensibly with a control that shows the parameter names on some kind of screen.

At some point I may get a Panorama to use with Bitwig. I agree with you that it is the best thing currently out there. It can be very good as a performance controller... but for sound design? no way...

I can do sound design in Bazille far faster with my mouse. With my screen and mouse, there is no need to remember pages and what parameters are on which page. The mouse is like a magnitude faster and requires no memorization.

My iPad Pro and Pencil can function as a graphics tablet. So I can display the Bazille GUI and edit. It's not multi-touch but the Pencil may be accurate enough to be fluid and precise. I haven't tried it yet to see how it works.

Yes I agree with you on the sound design thing, for the more complex synths anyways like Bazille. The mouse or a touch screen is the faster way to go. But there are times where people who work with a mouse all day at work (like me) really want to get away from the mouse when playing with their music toys. I don't think sound design is faster on digital hardware synths than VST with a mouse in general actually. But if you want to get away from the mouse, or for example if your sound design is often more about manipulating existing preset into something different by tweaking knobs and experimenting, than the non-mouse hardware control can be fun. But for sounds design from scratch I'd usually want it to be a more simple synth, more like the hardware analogs of yesteryear to go total hardware.

[T-CM11]

ReMote Zero:

Wow, that thing looks really awesome. Me want. Unfortunately lacking budget for something like that atm...

Over here, the Remote SL Zero usually goes for around 80-100 euro.
I bought my Remote SL49 for 125.

[T-CM11]

Actually I don't think I'd need 16 knobs and 8 faders, since I can grab only two at once If you really need hands-on control, get fully analog synth.
For virtual synths I spend most of time adjusting modulation matrix and other digital stuff by hand, so knobs are of little use here.

With your mouse you can only adjust half of that at once... so why do you need so many parameters at once on your screen?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Actually I don't think I'd need 16 knobs and 8 faders, since I can grab only two at once If you really need hands-on control, get fully analog synth.
For virtual synths I spend most of time adjusting modulation matrix and other digital stuff by hand, so knobs are of little use here.

With your mouse you can only adjust half of that at once... so why do you need so many parameters at once on your screen?

Yeah, it's not about how many you can move at once, its about how many you'd want to map to a knob you might eventually move.

[chk071]

ReMote Zero:

Wow, that thing looks really awesome. Me want. Unfortunately lacking budget for something like that atm...

Over here, the Remote SL Zero usually goes for around 80-100 euro.

Nice, that would be absolutely fine. I will keep an eye out on eBay.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Anyone have any experience with the Studiologic Sledge? Outside of being ugly as sin, it seems like it could work very well as a generic analog-style controller. And at $999, it's also a PPG synth (not that I'm a fan - I'd probably only even consider it as a controller).

http://www.studiologic-music.com/sledge-2.html

[aMUSEd]

Looks like it has less controls than the Roland Aria modular and twice the price

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Looks like it has less controls than the Roland Aria modular and twice the price

Yes, but it includes a 61-key keyboard (which might not be garbage) and pitch + mod wheels, which means I wouldn't need two controllers. I'd much prefer to consolidate the amount of gear I have rather than add more. If the Roland had a velocity sensitive keyboard + pitch and mod wheels (Roland hates these), it'd be perfect.

As a keyboard controller for VA's, I think the Studio Logic is interesting (compared to say the Nektar Panaroma or any other controller-only keyboards), but it's still way less cool than something like a Prophet-08. But then that raises the question, how good would the Prophet be as a standalone controller?

[rod_zero]

The sledge seems cool and has enough controls, a little less than the Roland ( I have counted controls and the Roland is one of the top, even counting analog stuff).

I have also considered it as well, few things I dont like: the quality of the pots isn't great, the sound engine is limited vs Blofeld, the control panel is way too big, overall it is ugly.

Might one of the best options, but then there is always the risk Roland comes with a bigger System 1 or waldorf release an updated Blofeld 2. That's always the problem when you get stuff and compromise something.

[Axis1~SL61]

BUT... (correct me if I'm wrong) by using a synth that is not a purpose built VST controller, wouldn't one be limited to sending only MIDI CCs and thus be limited to control only those VSTs that allow us to assign CC to their knobs and faders? -- I mean, a dedicated VST controller, like the Novations and others, can control like 99% of the VSTs even if those VSTs only have knobs that can't be assigned to receive specific MIDI CCs.

[rod_zero]

BUT... (correct me if I'm wrong) by using a synth that is not a purpose built VST controller, wouldn't one be limited to sending only MIDI CCs and thus be limited to control only those VSTs that allow us to assign CC to their knobs and faders? -- I mean, a dedicated VST controller, like the Novations and others, can control like 99% of the VSTs even if those VSTs only have knobs that can't be assigned to receive specific MIDI CCs.

Of course, it comes down to how the plug in control works, but I avod stuff that can not midi learn the CC #.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

-- I mean, a dedicated VST controller, like the Novations and others, can control like 99% of the VSTs even if those VSTs only have knobs that can't be assigned to receive specific MIDI CCs.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about Novation's Auto-Map technology? If so, that's just a plugin wrapper that automatically maps some controls, but it means you're using wrapped versions of your plugins, which I won't do. I use my Novation to just transmit MIDI CC's and map those in my host. Any CC can control any plugin parameter in Studio One (I think the same is true of Sonar and many other hosts).

[Axis1~SL61]

I have lots of plugins that can't be controlled with CCs and are controlled through VST Automation and not exclusively by Novation controllers. Even Novation doesn't need to wrap the plugin as long as it is a VST3 plugin. Also I doubt that the plugin.Automap file is a wraped version of the original (vst2) plugin, because the plugin.Automap file is much, much smaller (a few KB) than the real plugin file.