Which sequencer has the BEST midi implementation?

[kb420]

Of all of the DAWs I've tried, I found Sonar's MIDI implementation to be really clumsy and cumbersome. Cubase just does it for me. Things that take multiple (or several) clicks in Sonar can be done in one click in Cubase. I find it just that much quicker.

This is the main reason why I did not renew my Sonar subscription, and will not until I've seen that they've improved in this area. I wanted to love Sonar, but the MIDI abilities there just completely killed the overall experience for me, since all of my work involves midi.

I agree 100%! I don't understand how Cakewalk could get it so wrong. I haven't had a chance to take a serious look at Cubase. I'll have to after reading some of the posts in this thread.

[musiclover55547]

I'd very much agree with the many who cite Cubase as their option, and it would appear many are on PCs as Fruity Loops & Cakewalk are mentioned too (and today WIN appears to be Steinberg's home platform it would appear, particularly after Apple acquired eMagic. However, if you check the history out, they released their first post Atari version on the Mac in 1990.)

On the Mac side, Logic is very strong in this area too (if you know the history, they're quite similar in a lot of ways.) DP has a very unique way of handling MIDI / Audio / VIs, so I wouldn't quite discount them, and they have been around since ~1984 (under a slightly different name.) They too started on the Mac. However, Mark of the Unicorn's (formerly part of DigiDesign w/PT) implementation is one you immediately know you like / dislike. Their user base would say the same in reverse, however. All three are fantastic DAWs with impressive functionality.

[Kalamata Kid]

I have used Bidule as an IN in Cubase and Sonar. https://www.plogue.com/products/bidule/ As an IN you can do wild and crazy routing inside Bidule or the like such as energyXT and other modular VST hosts that are themselves VST or VSTi's.

Unfortunately for midi editing once midi has been recorded Bidule as far as I know is not good at this. Cubase is king as far as I know for midi editing.

[SJ_Digriz]

I'd very much agree with the many who cite Cubase as their option ..and today WIN appears to be Steinberg's home platform

actually it's opposite. Cubase used to be Win only. They have recently done a lot of things that are Mac first. This includes a f**ked up task/windows management approach that is horrible on windows. They dropped win and android remote app development. They are working on Retina support instead of a cross platform high res approach. I could go on, but Steinberg has really turned towards Apple Platform heavily. If anything will stop me from using Cubase it is that.

[LawrenceF]

Unfortunately for midi editing once midi has been recorded Bidule as far as I know is not good at this. Cubase is king as far as I know for midi editing.

No such thing as king of midi. It would only ever be true if everybody did the same things, worked the same way, had the same expectations, and wanted all the same exact midi features.

I know saying that won't ever stop these kind of threads though.

[xbitz]

I have used Bidule as an IN in Cubase and Sonar. https://www.plogue.com/products/bidule/ As an IN you can do wild and crazy routing inside Bidule or the like such as energyXT and other modular VST hosts that are themselves VST or VSTi's.

Unfortunately for midi editing once midi has been recorded Bidule as far as I know is not good at this. Cubase is king as far as I know for midi editing.

BC PatchWork has DAW independent inner MIDI routing so VSTs like Piz MIDI Plugins can be used in it freely, or also can be used with Nora nicely, in this u can get AL like Session clip support in any DAW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti4tGnUNPcU

so IMO currently the best config/general framework is (on windows) Cubase, BC Patchwork (for layering, and free MIDI routing), and Reaktor 6 Blocks 1.1 on the out fx (if needs modularity), chord track of Cubase is simply too good to not use it(and this is why Nora which is chord chopper tool basically can be used it in superbly, in this case u have brilliant chorder tool and chord chopper in the same time, they are very powerful together) but the clips system(AL,Bitwig etc.) but it can be put into it using Nora

offtopic but Reaktor 6 Blocks 1.1 can use macro controls finally, if u missed, so no needs AL,Bitwig anymore only for modular fxes or sound designing)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeRCikpVMb0
sry for the sound quality, so by default Cubase is the most powerful DAW just there was no modular routing(modular fx routing), and clip system in it, but both problems can be solved from now

[Dewdman42]

well midi "king" in terms of what? All the big DAW's have excellent midi capabilities, they each have their pros and cons. People have their preferences for how they like to edit stuff. There are so many plugins that fill in all the gaps now..honestly...what do you want for midi? I don't think there is any clear king.

[Kalamata Kid]

I have used Bidule as an IN in Cubase and Sonar. https://www.plogue.com/products/bidule/ As an IN you can do wild and crazy routing inside Bidule or the like such as energyXT and other modular VST hosts that are themselves VST or VSTi's.

Unfortunately for midi editing once midi has been recorded Bidule as far as I know is not good at this. Cubase is king as far as I know for midi editing.

BC PatchWork has DAW independent inner MIDI routing so VSTs like Piz MIDI Plugins can be used in it freely, or also can be used with Nora nicely, in this u can get AL like Session clip support in any DAW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti4tGnUNPcU

so IMO currently the best config/general framework is (on windows) Cubase, BC Patchwork (for layering, and free MIDI routing), and Reaktor 6 Blocks 1.1 on the out fx (if needs modularity), chord track of Cubase is simply too good to not use it(and this is why Nora which is chord chopper tool basically can be used it in superbly, in this case u have brilliant chorder tool and chord chopper in the same time, they are very powerful together) but the clips system(AL,Bitwig etc.) but it can be put into it using Nora

offtopic but Reaktor 6 Blocks 1.1 can use macro controls finally, if u missed, so no needs AL,Bitwig anymore only for modular fxes or sound designing)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeRCikpVMb0
sry for the sound quality, so by default Cubase is the most powerful DAW just there was no modular routing(modular fx routing), and clip system in it, but both problems can be solved from now

The arsenal of tools available nowadays to create music is staggering!!! I have for the most part ignored BC Patchwork at it had been outside my view for some strange unknown reason. I will look more into it and make a better comparison with Bidule.

Another modular environment to enhance midi in a DAW is Fl Sudio’s Patcher. I am tempted to use FL Studio as a VSTi or as an IN in Sonar or Studio One or Cubase just to have access to it. The other but not ready for prime time is IL Minihost Modular. http://www.image-line.com/documents/new ... st+modular

I am still looking for a modular environment that can host both 32 and 64 bit VST’s.

Nora? Next on my list to get. Nora should start thinking about making a DAW!

[Kalamata Kid]

well midi "king" in terms of what? All the big DAW's have excellent midi capabilities, they each have their pros and cons. People have their preferences for how they like to edit stuff. There are so many plugins that fill in all the gaps now..honestly...what do you want for midi? I don't think there is any clear king.

The reason I say CUbase is king is that it has
Cakewalk MFX,
Proprietary MFX,
ST 3.5 midi note editing (forgot what ii is called)
Easy to get to midi editing tools
Logical editor
Transformer
Input Transformer
Piano roll editing
List editor

Did I miss anything?

Yet there are some midi features that may be missing and musician will find them in another DAW.
So Cubase is not the Midi King to all just most.

[Dewdman42]

most, if not all of what you are mentioning can be found in the other DAW's too in some fashion.

[musiclover55547]

I'd very much agree with the many who cite Cubase as their option ..and today WIN appears to be Steinberg's home platform

actually it's opposite. Cubase used to be Win only. They have recently done a lot of things that are Mac first. This includes a f**ked up task/windows management approach that is horrible on windows. They dropped win and android remote app development. They are working on Retina support instead of a cross platform high res approach. I could go on, but Steinberg has really turned towards Apple Platform heavily. If anything will stop me from using Cubase it is that.

That is very interesting and good to know. The roadblock they have on the Mac platfotm is price + dongle. Given Logic is handled via the Mac Store, the distribution costs are very low, the cost is very low, and of course there are those who cite the app being tied to the goal of selling more macs. The app continues to improve, so I am very surprised to hear they're doing a mini "about-face." Interestingly, if you buy into the "selling more macs" line of reasoning, this "about face" of sorts furthers Apple proper's goal, though indirectly, in the same fashion as Ableton, Digital Performer, and ProTools.

As you probably know, last quarter, Apple was the only computer HW vendor to actually post an increase in sales, and analysts expect more of the same this year-- even despite the Mac Pro not having been updated since 2013. However, the iMacs have surpassed many of their benchmarks, etc.

This by no means is meant to incite the perennial OS vs OS discission, however, it's just very interesting to me that a player as major as Cubase has veered in this direction. From what I hear, S1 is not as good on OSX, so I'd imagine the DAW is primiarily installed on a WIN platform. I also wonder how many Reaper users are on the Mac, but my guess would be a higher PC percentage, though I have not heard many people have difficulties on OSX as will S1. Bitwig doesn't even support AUs, though I am not certain as to their split. Given the touch-screen value prop, it would appear WIN 10 (and specifically WIN 10, not WIN 8 or WIN 7) is their home platform.

[Dewdman42]

Logic Pro may or may not be driven by Apple as a loss leader to sell more macs, but regardless, it is a fantastic DAW! It has incredible flexibility, the ability to do a lot of transformational stuff to midi using the environment and their MIDIFX slot in the mixer, some might argue, much more then what you can do with Cubase or sonar.

It includes a huge collection of excellent plugins. The layout of everything is intuitive and musical to work with. it seems to have excellent CPU efficiency. Its a very mature product and backed by Apple. I was kind of shocked at how long their 10.2.1 update list was... Apple is very committed to this product as of now. No dongle!

I do wish they had a chord track...sorta. its not that hard for me to lay down some chords...so...I don't find that particularly important. There are a lot of plugins and other tools out there now for that sort of thing, it doesn't need to be in the DAW. I also wish that it had a better song construction mode, to create named bits of music that can be assembled into bigger bits of music. Every DAW out there has a few little unique things it does that the others don't do as well...as well as their own headaches...

pick your poison...

[steff3]

"actually it's opposite. Cubase used to be Win only. They have recently done a lot of things that are Mac first. "

What? VST was first released on PowerPC - that means Mac. Nuendo I think was first only on Windows, and Wavelab was Windows only. But Cubase has never been Windows only - just "only works on Windows half-ways" durind SX 1 & 2.

Best

[xbitz]

I do wish they had a chord track...sorta. its not that hard for me to lay down some chords...so...I don't find that particularly important. There are a lot of plugins and other tools out there now for that sort of thing, it doesn't need to be in the DAW.

it's not just chord track, u can colorize your MIDI notes based on the uses scales/chords, MIDIs can follow the voice leading (have dedicated soprano, alto, tenor etc. MIDI notes with tightly integration in this case)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur7a7u0tgq4

chords can be dropped to the chord slots of the instruments(Steinberg ones) etc. quite nice...so it's not just about knowing the chords or not it's a great time saver

[kelldammit]

"actually it's opposite. Cubase used to be Win only. They have recently done a lot of things that are Mac first. "

What? VST was first released on PowerPC - that means Mac. Nuendo I think was first only on Windows, and Wavelab was Windows only. But Cubase has never been Windows only - just "only works on Windows half-ways" durind SX 1 & 2.

Best

Later, the PC version of Cubase VST skipped version 4 altogether, so that people didn't think it was "behind" anymore.