KVR Audio

V0RT3X · Post by **V0RT3X** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:15 am

I think once we see 50 Core CPUS we'll have very very accurate analog modelling techniques that will require at least 5 cores per instance.

So no, we still got a ways to go.

I mean someone will come out with a Super analog modelled VHS simulator that will let people get that dusty old 80s movie sound on their DAW.

lol

Honestly i won't be surprised if developers start modelling really weird things like cheap radios, 8-tracks etc and release them as "Creative effects"

JonSolo · Post by **JonSolo** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:17 am

I have close to 400 paid plugins. I have used them all...at least once. Ok I have not used NI VC2A...YET.

I am saturated. But my plugin list keeps growing!

I need another compressor!!!!!!!!!

Yorrrrrr · Post by **Yorrrrrr** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:09 am

MJUC!

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:50 am

benjamind wrote:Not unless we have realistic solo/ensemble strings. We're waiting on SampleModeling to come up with something that will undoubtedly revolutionize this area.

There are many good sample libs out there, but these guys would take the cake and eat it if they could release their solo and ensemble string instrument sets.

I was just about to say the very same thing. I think there is a certain degree of realism available but the cost:benefit in terms of hours spent and funds is not optimal, and there are so many things with strs. that are not viable with samples. More true of strs than other types IME.

benjamind · Post by **benjamind** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:11 am

No, not even close.

There are plenty of new VSTs that could emerge.

1 - Emulating or replacing bowed strings, and string sections
2 - Physical modelling with more advanced technologies or algorithms
3 - New synthesis technologies, see point 2.

There's literally another world of VSTs that are waiting out there to be released, or in development. Mokafix comes to mind. Suspended in 2010, but I bet those projects are still out there, just haven't been worked on, or maybe being worked on, but we're not privy to that development.

In other words, nobody really knows.

omiroad · Post by **omiroad** » Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:13 pm

benjamind wrote:No, not even close.

There are plenty of new VSTs that could emerge.

1 - Emulating or replacing bowed strings, and string sections.

I believe Sample Modeling is on this:

http://www.samplemodeling.com/en/swam_viola.php

MogwaiBoy · Post by **MogwaiBoy** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:39 am

V0RT3X wrote: Honestly i won't be surprised if developers start modelling really weird things like cheap radios, 8-tracks etc and release them as "Creative effects"

As a guitarist first and foremost, I can see some areas in the plugin market that haven't been covered properly. For example if you've ever played an instrument through an MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay pedal, you might find it hard to go back to your $200 plugin. I don't mean to sound like an analog snob but yeah... I haven't found anything in the digital realm that comes close. See also: The Maxon AF-9 Auto Filter (effectively a small-box Mutron).

Come to think of it.. how about this for an idea: A USB dongle that contains several analog chips as used in distortion and delay pedals... which the software plugin uses to give it a much more authentic sound.

Or... just route externally to a Tubescreamer and call it done!

uselessmind · Post by **uselessmind** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:29 am

benjamind wrote:No, not even close.

There are plenty of new VSTs that could emerge.

1 - Emulating or replacing bowed strings, and string sections
2 - Physical modelling with more advanced technologies or algorithms
3 - New synthesis technologies, see point 2.

There's literally another world of VSTs that are waiting out there to be released, or in development. Mokafix comes to mind. Suspended in 2010, but I bet those projects are still out there, just haven't been worked on, or maybe being worked on, but we're not privy to that development.

In other words, nobody really knows.

Seems like you actually agree with the op.
Think about it this way, what is the percentage of synths being actually released that are really interesting to you?

To me a vast majority (might be 99%) are boring. Occasionally there is something like Kaivo but if that is what it takes to get me interested then for me a saturation point had long been reached.

It doesn't mean everything interesting has been done, it means nothing (or almost nothing) interesting has been done for quite some time.

GeorgeZ · Post by **GeorgeZ** » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:16 am

Personally, I feel, my folders are busting at the seams. Only thing I spend money on now (and have for the last 2 years IIRC) are upgrades/ updates on stuff I already own / have invested in.

MadBrain · Post by **MadBrain** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:47 am

benjamind wrote:No, not even close.

There are plenty of new VSTs that could emerge.

1 - Emulating or replacing bowed strings, and string sections
2 - Physical modelling with more advanced technologies or algorithms
3 - New synthesis technologies, see point 2.

There's literally another world of VSTs that are waiting out there to be released, or in development. Mokafix comes to mind. Suspended in 2010, but I bet those projects are still out there, just haven't been worked on, or maybe being worked on, but we're not privy to that development.

In other words, nobody really knows.

I'm not sure devs are all that hot about making new physical modelling synths... when you look at what happened with the Technics WSA1 (ended up heavily discounted) or Yamaha VP-1 (only 2 were made, rumor has it that the VL/VP R&D department had 100+ people before Yamaha pulled out the plug)... all of this makes you consider that maybe that's not what people actually want.

Also, many people think ever faster CPUs will enable more realist models and make it happen, but IRL I don't think the problem is really CPU power, it's more that physical modelling is really really R&D intensive, and devs would rather spend this R&D time on things they know will sell, such as yet another virtual analog, or something that makes no sense but just tries to sound big (like Massive or Hive... even the original Junos were like that and people love them).

Plus there's the whole control issue... violins sound great because the violinist continuously varies bow pressure AND bow speed AND vibrato rate AND vibrato speed. Even if you have the world's best violin sim, it's not going to do you much good if the player won't even touch the mod wheel or buy a breath controller (which Yamaha discontinued even).

Triplefox · Post by **Triplefox** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:41 pm

I kind of concluded "yes" a few years ago. In general, if you want an existing sound you can find a sample or preset for it somewhere. The most expensive plugins tend to revolve around the preset content, but if you're a student with no budget you can usually find a Soundfont that will do the job when slathered with FX, it just takes more work. The gear market has always premised a large part of its marketing on reproducing existing sounds, even though that's the most boring use of a synth. So, if there's something new and cool, it has to fight to be heard. The quality bar has room to keep going up, but we're really in a different era from where it all used to be - there's no prestige in sounding "hi-fi" anymore, just "different".

Also, software has a tendency to be very ephemeral - it doesn't die of overuse, it dies when the ecosystem around it changes. There are lots and lots of weird free plugins that I was using regularly 5-6 years ago that I have no idea if I can even find now. So there is a kind of natural decay thing going on here, where fashions change simply because your old thing is old. I expect that a few software generations down the line more and more plugins will be based on commoditized, construction-kit technology and the DSP algorithms will be even more expensive(but the hardware will have caught up, one way or another). More and more of the commerce will revolve around content for that commodity technology, rather than shipping code.

I managed to drop ~$200 this past week on loops, upgrades to DAW and plugin versions, and an FX plugin(Valhalla UberMod), but I also successfully avoided buying a new synth, even though I considered it. Sales pushed me over the edge into spending anything at all, and of course one thing led to another and I got some other stuff I had been considering. I might get another FX plug too - I find that those purchases are easier to justify since they have a multiplying effect on your sources.

(I did technically get a new synth, Wusik 8000, but I got it as part of upgrading Wusikstation.)

But what I actually want to see on the market is more "vertical integration" of the process from composition ideas to final mastering. There are many, many DAW sequencers that just give you a piano roll and expect you to record takes or carefully insert every note, which I honestly find kind of odd and limiting from an electronic music perspective as it makes it hard to shape a song in broad strokes. There are programs for composition, and I have a few of them(RapidComposer is very interesting albeit difficult to learn), but they also tend to be a bit aloof of the production process and create an extra stage in the workflow where you aren't working with final sounds yet and you have to bounce out some MIDI.

I wanted to learn arrangement ideas for trance and the most straightforward way to get a broad overview was to purchase a bunch of MIDI loop packs and construction kits, but when I go to write something I know that I'm probably going to wander away from the loops to build things up from melody/bass/chords instead, and keep only the drum loops in the final result. So I'm kind of meeting the marketplace in the middle, buying all that stuff with the expectation that the majority gets tossed - and maybe the way the DAW ecosystem has evolved is partially to blame here too, being so focused on emulating the traditional studio workflow first. All I can say for sure is that I find it easier to play with individual sounds than with whole tracks.

Have We Reached VST Saturation Point?