Setting up a Linux DAW

[RockinMillie]

I was an I.T. professional for over 15 years. So I have production support experience of AIX, HP-UX, Solaris UNIX systems and Red Hat, SuSe and Debian Linux (and some of their variants), as well as Windows.

I use Debian Linux for everything except music production (and have done for about 15 years). I used to build my own custom kernels (I just can't be arsed now).

So please, there is no need to flog the dead horse about' early adoption' and 'needlessly updating' or 'taking the time to *learn* Linux'.
System stability is the most important thing for me:
I only ever use the stable release of Debian as opposed to 'testing' or 'unstable' (Sid). I am still on Windows 8.1 and Studio One 2.6.5

However, the point I am making is; that this cannot in any way be considered a well designed audio sub-system:



In fact, it cannot even be described as 'designed', it has just evolved.
And grown arms, legs, feelers and antennae

Certainly you will find people who do use Linux for music production. Well done to them.
However, I would rather put the time and effort into the music rather than hacking around with something that is fundamentally flawed to begin with.

Over and out

[glokraw]

An IT professional asserting that windows is never prone
to fundamental flaws. How precious.

But if windows were not so fundamentally and
perennially flawed, most of the IT professionals
would be in other professions.

[RockinMillie]

An IT professional asserting that windows is never prone
to fundamental flaws. How precious.

But if windows were not so fundamentally and
perennially flawed, most of the IT professionals
would be in other professions.

Ah, so you had to resort to personal insults, rather than address the facts I presented.
I'm not going to engage in a slanging match with you. Let's stick to facts:

Likewise if UNIX and Linux were not also flawed most of the I.T. professionals who specialise in those technologies would be in other professions also. Fact, there is more money to be made supporting UNIX than Windows.

Where in this thread did I state that Windows was not flawed ? Nowhere
I think it is quite clear that I stated that I use Linux for everything except audio production.
What I did state, was that the Linux audio sub-system is fundamentally flawed because it does not have a clearly defined bottom layer.
Now, I am not the only person who is of that opinion. Just the fact that something like the JACK connection kit is needed to try and make sense of it all speaks volumes.

I cannot speak about MACs, but my experience is that working with audio production on Windows is far simpler and far more reliable than doing so on Linux.

I'm not talking about applications that sit on top the audio sub-system here, but the part of the O/S that sits between the audio hardware / the various proprietary hardware drivers and the kernel.

It seems that your only response here is to reel off a litany of audio production applications that are available on Linux.

All software has flaws (a good example was the massive and very dangerous vulnerability in Linux Open SSL last year). As always, it depends.
It's all about using what software is appropriate for the job in hand.

I'm a big fan of Linux, where it is appropriate to use it

[DuX]

I will just say this: those who don't use Linux for music production should really find some other thread to troll, eh?

Leave this thread to those who want to discuss and "setup a Linux DAW" as the title says, or contribute to it constructively, not with useless comments like "why would you do it?" or "Linux is not capable of being a DAW" because that makes no sense in this thread.

Please guys.

[RockinMillie]

I will just say this: those who don't use Linux for music production should really find some other thread to troll, eh?

Leave this thread to those who want to discuss and "setup a Linux DAW" as the title says, or contribute to it constructively, not with useless comments like "why would you do it?" or "Linux is not capable of being a DAW" because that makes no sense in this thread.

Please guys.

Given the original context of the thread; that the OP is currently using Windows for audio production and is thinking of making the decision of switching to Linux, the advice offered by myself as well as others to stay with Windows only for audio production and switch to Linux for everything else is a relevant part of the discussion.
Look back and read the thread in context from the start.

I don't think I have made any inflamatory remarks at all in this thread. Others have questioned my original statement that the Linux audio sub-system is a mess (one Linux user even agreed with me on that with regard to ALSA) and I responded with facts to support my opinion. How is that trolling ?

Perhaps you should contact TuxRadar and Linux Today and accuse them of trolling too for documenting those very facts

[kmatheussen]

Just the fact that something like the JACK connection kit is needed to try and make sense of it all speaks volumes.

What exactly do you think is wrong with Jack? What would be the better situation in your opinion?

Given the original context of the thread; that the OP is currently using Windows for audio production and is thinking of making the decision of switching to Linux, the advice offered by myself as well as others to stay with Windows only for audio production and switch to Linux for everything else is a relevant part of the discussion.

Setting up low-latency audio is not a big thing on Linux: Install qjackctl, press "Start", and you're done (in addition, there are some tweaks you can do to make things work even better). If you want to advice people against using audio for Linux, there is unfortunately a far better argument, which is: For creating pop music, there is a lot more software and plugins to choose from if you run Windows or Mac OS X.

[kmatheussen]

Just the fact that something like the JACK connection kit is needed to try and make sense of it all speaks volumes.

What exactly do you think is wrong with Jack? What would be the better situation in your opinion?

Given the original context of the thread; that the OP is currently using Windows for audio production and is thinking of making the decision of switching to Linux, the advice offered by myself as well as others to stay with Windows only for audio production and switch to Linux for everything else is a relevant part of the discussion.

Setting up low-latency audio is not a big thing on Linux: Install qjackctl, press "Start", and you're done (in addition, there are some tweaks you can do to make things work even better). If you want to advice people against using audio for Linux, there is unfortunately a far better argument, which is: For creating popular music, there is a lot more software and plugins to choose from if you run Windows or Mac OS X.

[pdxindy]

To the OP

If you don't want to use Windows for audio... get a Mac

[RockinMillie]

I'm quite happy to continue this discussion with you, as respectful debate is a healthy thing
However, if the dog-piling, personal insults and fanboy accusations of trolling start up again, then I'm out OK.

What exactly do you think is wrong with Jack? What would be the better situation in your opinion?

There is nothing wrong with the Jack connection kit in itself. To me the issue is not just ALSA as you say, but the fact that there is ALSA, the deprecated OSS and FFADO all doing their stuff directly to the hardware, independently and that Jack is required to try make some sense of it.
Now Windows is far from perfect and as a secure operating system, vastly inferior to Linux and UNIX.
However, in this context (i.e. audio sub-system) the fact that on Windows there is only one Windows API and the audio sub-system is a black box that just works, is vastly preferable. I'm a great believer in keeping things as simple as they need to be, in that the less layers of 'stuff' between your DAW and hardware, the better it is. I refuse to use iLok and 32 bit VST bridging for that very reason

Setting up low-latency audio is not a big thing on Linux: Install qjackctl, press "Start", and you're done (in addition, there are some tweaks you can do to make things work even better). If you want to advice people against using audio for Linux, there is unfortunately a far better argument, which is: For creating pop music, there is a lot more software and plugins to choose from if you run Windows or Mac OS X.

I would fully agree that setting up low-latency audio is do-able (but I don't agree that it is as trivial as you suggest, as you need to put in place the proper config files in the proper location first) for someone who has many years of experience working with Linux.

However, in the context of the OP, we have a Windows user who is thinking of moving lock stock and barrel to Linux. The OP is going to have a very steep learning curve just getting to the point where a DAW can be set up (assuming that they are new to Linux, which is a fair assumption given their question):

First; there will be the game of Linux hardware 'bingo'. It is safe to assume that most processor, motherboards and NICs will not be an issue. Once one gets into the territory of graphics cards and more so audio interfaces it becomes a bit more hazy:

• Best scenario is, the vendor supplies a Linux driver for the interface, therefore some vendor support.
  Next best; someone has written a third party driver which may or may not work as well as the Windows driver, no vendor support.
  Worst case; the hardware will not work on Linux, so either forget Linux or buy a new interface.

So if the first two case are true the OP now has the task of either compiling the driver into the kernel or compiling it as a module and making sure it get loaded into the running kernel at boot time. A daunting task for a newbie.
Add to this, the OP will need to learn more than just basic bash command line syntax, probably how to use vi / vim and to learn where everything is located in the Linux file system, which of course varies from distro to distro. Not to mention fundamental Linux concepts.

So all in all, getting just Linux installed and getting graphics and basic sound to work will be a steep learning curve for the OP.

Far better to keep on Windows as far as the DAW goes and become familiar with whichever distro he / she chooses.
The decision whether to move to a Linux DAW can then be taken at leisure and if taken done in tandem whilst still making serious music on a Windows partition.

Yes, your point about the choice of software for Windows is true. But this goes back to my original point about there not being the same commercial incentives to develop pro level software for an open source platform.

As a side-note: At the weekend I did a clean install of Debian 8.2 stable to replace Debian 7 on my Linux partition. I also installed Tracktion 4 there too just to have a look at it -
On the positive side: one can set up ones' audio interface within Tracktion to use ALSA directly without having to go via JACK.
On the negative side: it's very flaky. Just navigating to the directory where it prompts for a new project to be created resulted in an un-handled exception. This is basic Janet and John stuff and not really acceptable.

My previous experiences with Ardour, Hydrogen and Rosegarden were not exactly positive either. I found them to be flaky too.

[trimph1]

The desperation regards the use of Linux makes me think that Linux is not ready for digital audio yet.

Myself, I would wait until one sees big improvement in the audio areas.

Oh, and don't throw the but Windows is of teh EVIL thing around.

[chk071]

An IT professional asserting that windows is never prone
to fundamental flaws. How precious.

But if windows were not so fundamentally and
perennially flawed, most of the IT professionals
would be in other professions.

Ah, so you had to resort to personal insults, rather than address the facts I presented.

The usual thing when talking to Linux people. Lol @ arguing there wouldn't be so many IT professionals if Windows wasn't so flawed btw. That's about the silliest thing i've read in quite a while.

[RockinMillie]

An IT professional asserting that windows is never prone
to fundamental flaws. How precious.

But if windows were not so fundamentally and
perennially flawed, most of the IT professionals
would be in other professions.

Ah, so you had to resort to personal insults, rather than address the facts I presented.

The usual thing when talking to Linux people. Lol @ arguing there wouldn't be so many IT professionals if Windows wasn't so flawed btw. That's about the silliest thing i've read in quite a while.

More to the point: if it wasn't for I.T. professionals giving their time and skills for free, Linux wouldn't exist at all

[chk071]

Hehe, good point. I learned more about computing than with any other OS, that's for sure, and if you want to call that a "pro" for Linux, though it was mostly for problem fixing issues, then i guess you could see it that way. Anyway, i don't have something generally against Linux, but frankly, having seen it on forums, the community plain sucks. Elitists, politically twisted misfits, and big times who aren't so big really, but think they can do better than anyone else out there. Sorry for the harsh words, i really can't describe it in a different way. Happy to have left it behind.

[RockinMillie]

Hehe, good point. I learned more about computing than with any other OS, that's for sure, and if you want to call that a "pro" for Linux, though it was mostly for problem fixing issues, then i guess you could see it that way. Anyway, i don't have something generally against Linux, but frankly, having seen it on forums, the community plain sucks. Elitists, politically twisted misfits, and big times who aren't so big really, but think they can do better than anyone else out there. Sorry for the harsh words, i really can't describe it in a different way. Happy to have left it behind.

Actually and seriously, using Linux is great way to learn how your computer works and really good for learning troubleshooting / problem analysis skills.

[glokraw]

More to the point: if it wasn't for I.T. professionals giving their time and skills for free, Linux wouldn't exist at all

Linux is at heart, an Enterprise solution, very much rooted
in the Fortune 500. The plethora of 'distros' are mainly
self determined efforts, maintained voluntarily for a purpose,
and not dependant on IT handouts, but but on team members,
or a primary developer, learning and expanding the IT
in their chosen venue.