Real Guitar 4 released

[4tune]

Couldn`t find a thread on this but got an email that RealGuitar 4 has been released.

http://www.musiclab.com/products/realguitar/info.html

Only had a brief demo of it so far but I really like the new Song mode so I think it may be time for an upgrade from RG2. Seems to be very well thought out and intuitive to use for a strummed backing track.

Any thoughts or things to look out for in the new version?

Shall be digging into the manual as I go along.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaAKNRS1Lzo#t=31

[Compyfox]

Only had a brief demo of it so far but I really like the new Song mode so I think it may be time for an upgrade from RG2. Seems to be very well thought out and intuitive to use for a strummed backing track.

Any thoughts or things to look out for in the new version?

If you come from v2, there is A LOT of things to look out for. From v3, not so much.

I think the most important things to mention for v4 are:
1) the new Humanize Mode (as seen in RealEight)
2) the new Song Mode
3) the "Rhythm Library" got some slight updates...

New for you is definitely the Joystick Mode (which can also be used WITHOUT a GuitarHero controller, check the upper octaves of your keyboard), and of course some new keyswitches (many more from v2 to v4).


Though keep in mind, "drag and drop" seems to not be possible for the Song Mode yet (at least not on my end with Cubase). This may be changed in a future update.

And as with all my posts regarding "RealGuitar Acoustic" (which I'll call RG-AG4 from now on, meaning: RG = RealGuitar, AG = Acoustic Guitar version, <nr> = engine version), I do emphasize that you need(!) post EQ/compression to make the guitar sound even better.


Please also take a look at my KVRMarks and my comments on RealEight:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 3#p6135563

[4tune]

Thanks Compyfox,

that is certainly some useful info there,

does look like it may be worth the current $50 upgrade just for song mode even so far, but there is more depth to get into aswell and I like the humanize options.

Drag and drop would certainly be nice but not a deal breaker.

[Compyfox]

At this price, the upgrade is a steal. Especially if you come from an elder engine.

[macmuse]

Has the sound caught up a bit with current offerings (because after all, it has been around a long time)? Have they updated the rhythm patterns? Thanks.

[Compyfox]

Has the sound caught up a bit with current offerings (because after all, it has been around a long time)?

Can't answer this, as I'm not the dev. But there was nothing mentioned in terms of new audio content. Yes, it's a bit dated sound wise. But nothing suitable post FX can't fix.

Have they updated the rhythm patterns? Thanks.

The main patterns are still there. But with the inclusion of the song mode, there are a handful new ones among them as well.

I have a feeling, that we might be seeing more with an upgrade pack

[Compyfox]

Short update on the SONG MODE:
I'm on the most recent version now (.7205). Drag and Drop in Song Mode only works for the Pattern Library, sadly not the song you created, which could then be triggered via the Chord modes of the GUI. But this is a already filed FR.



Also - did you know?

- Engine 4 now has an "UpdateChecker" in the root folder where you installed the RG engine to (can also be launched from the stand alone version, just click on the RealGuitar Logo, then "Check for Updates")

- the engine now also asks you if you want to "optimize your samples" for various sampling rates you use, if you switch them within your host (each optimization needs more HDD space). If you want to change that manually, take a look into the manual and search for "Bank Manager"

- want even more "realism"/randomization to your guitar sound? Ramp up the "Alter" settings to 5, and mess with the HUMANIZE engine (especially: Stroke/Strum time). But "freeze" or "bounce in place" if you want to further edit your material (EQ/compression). Else the sound changes drastically every time on playback.

- your guitar still sounds too sterile, remember that strummed guitar strings NEVER sound the same pitch wise, especially on faster strumming and picking. So activate the ALL SOUNDS +/-10cents mode in the HUMANIZE engine.

- want to simulate the sound of a "thick pick" compared to a thin one? Go into MIXER panel (Top Right) and change the "PICK" settings: raise it for a thicker pick, lower it for a thin one. Turning it off makes "picked" presets unrealistic however. Not so drastic with "fingered" ones, but here it's also adding to the attack sound (played with fingertips or fingernails)

- 12 string sounding too "wide spread"? Then grab an M/S tool and pull down the side signal to make the signal "more mono".

- Guitar sounding a bit thin right out of the box - especially the steel one? Go into the OUTPUT panel, raise the LOW EQ to about +3 (additionally lower the high EQ to -1,5 if desired). Play with the PICK POSITION between -4 (pick more left) and +4 (more right) rather than full left/right for the Electric Guitars. Lowering the bass for Nylon Fingered presets might work a bit better however (else the resonating body is too prominent, especially with PICK settings at lower volume). And I highly advise to still use POST EQ/Compression.



This should give you a nice head start (especially as new user).

[lingyai]

Short update on the SONG MODE:
I'm on the most recent version now (.7205). Drag and Drop in Song Mode only works for the Pattern Library, sadly not the song you created, which could then be triggered via the Chord modes of the GUI. But this is a already filed FR.

Ach ...

Thanks for all the tips, which I've not reproduced to save space.

I know you're a fan, and I have used it with good results sometimes (I'd followed your advice in fact) but that for me is a deal-killer, if I understand correctly. I have v3, and so for me the only thing new which excited me was the new EZKeys-like approach to composition (circle of fifths GUI) w/drop and drag. Would have made not only choosing chords but also combining patterns much easier. But for me, the inability to save what you compose -- that is the case, yes? -- would render the whole thing pointless.

When I first learned about RG (version 2), it was the most exciting thing since Steinberg's Virtual Guitarist. But now, both Orange Tree Samples and Indiginus have come out with very nice strum engines, while their samples and scripting pretty much blow RG's away, IMHO.

What's more, the Indiginus Strummaker IV is only $46 -- cheaper than an upgrade to RG4. Plus, the dev is much less grumpy than Sergey.

[Compyfox]

I know you're a fan, and I have used it with good results sometimes (I'd followed your advice in fact) but that for me is a deal-killer, if I understand correctly. I have v3, and so for me the only thing new which excited me was the new EZKeys-like approach to composition (circle of fifths GUI) w/drop and drag. Would have made not only choosing chords but also combining patterns much easier. But for me, the inability to save what you compose -- that is the case, yes? -- would render the whole thing pointless.

I think there is a small misunderstanding.

The Song Mode currently has one major flaw which I already pointed out to the developers. And that is dragging and dropping what you created with the "SONG MODE" (read: the chord progression and the custom strumming pattern) into your host for further fine tuning and triggering via the Chord Modes.

You can(!) save your created song with the Save Button (arrow down, bottom left section of the GUI).
The "Song" will also be saved inside of your project (Cubase for example), and reloads every time you reload it.

But Drag and Drop only works for the Pattern Library for the time being. MIDI out of RealGuitar also still works as possible workaround

I have v3, and so for me the only thing new which excited me was the new EZKeys-like approach to composition (circle of fifths GUI) w/drop and drag.

You should DEFINITELY check out the Humanize engine. It's adding so much to the realism of this guitar. I've talked about this in detail in the RealEight thread (linked above), and makes the guitar sound "less mechanic" (less "on point", "less quantized") overall.

When I first learned about RG (version 2), it was the most exciting thing since Steinberg's Virtual Guitarist. But now, both Orange Tree Samples and Indiginus have come out with very nice strum engines, while their samples and scripting pretty much blow RG's away, IMHO.

Sorry - can't agree on that with the scripting at least. Yes, the scripting is massively simplified. But this is also it's major issue (at least for Indiginus IMO) - you have to trigger more key-switches to get to the same results that RealGuitar can offer. Brain wise, Musiclab is (IMO!) still on top of it's game. Yes, RealGuitar's engine learning curve is steep, but you can do so much with it.

And yes, I agree - the "CAPO" feature could find it's way into the CHORD Modes of all RealGuitars (I filed this since engine 2, along with Dropped D tuning in chords mode).


Sample wise is a completely subjective thing. But most of the Kontakt available samples do NOT offer such in-depth editing possibilities like "tone hole position" (represented with the PICK POSITION mode), or highly customizable possibilities over Fret Board noises, Release, Pick Strength, etc. Most of the time, you're "set" with one tone (Steinberg Virtual Guiarist included), or have to pay extra for getting a different type of pick sound.

I get the criticism of the "old sounding samples" compared to "modern and ready out of the box" ones. But in all honesty - there are so many tools on the market these days that have presets for guitars (in EQ's and Compressors), even EZ Mix has presets like that. Are elder sample sets automatically "crap" compared to more recent releases?

I mean, look at Vienna Symphonic. The early sets are still in use in modern day productions.

What's more, the Indiginus Strummaker IV is only $46 -- cheaper than an upgrade to RG4. Plus, the dev is much less grumpy than Sergey.

Sergey is not grumpy, it just looks like he is due to language barriers. But that's my 2c.

Price wise, this is also a matter of preference. If you already have RealGuitar, and upgrade from an earlier engine, then 49USD can either be steep (if you think that v3 to v4 is not worth it) or an absolute steal (v1/v2 to v4). And you get a lot(!) of cool new features on top of it.

Indiginus Strummaker IV is "as is" - limited, just a strumming engine, with one guitar only - which also needs Kontakt full additionally. While RealGuitar is so much more - and all within one VSTi or Standalone application.


Again - YMMV.
I'm merely trying to give a different viewpoint, lift the curtain a bit on the topic "sounds outdated and sounds fake".

[lingyai]

Like so many things,it's a matter of individual taste and different experiences etc. You make some good points.

I would just point out on small item (not to derail the OP) -- your view that that "Indiginus Strummaker IV is "as is" - limited, just a strumming engine, with one guitar only". Not true. You can (using Kontak'ts "send midi to the outside world" option) have it drive any other Kontakt instrument or other VSTi which reads midi data.

Anyway, if they fix the drop and drag I'll try the demo.

Thanks again for the detailed tips for getting greater realism.

[Compyfox]

Again, in itself - Drag and Drop works (pattern library to host). But the created song can't be dragged yet.

Which is still not a problem as:
a) MIDI out works
b) it's saved inside the project
c) it can be saved as "song" independently

See it as "scratch pad" currently to initially set up your song - then either record it's "performance" as AUDIO track (like you would with a real guitarist) or the MIDI performance. Or... and a lot of hosts have this built in now... start your ideas inside of RealGuitar, then based upon this idea, recreate the chord progression in your host and edit further with any(!) RG library pattern you desire (more flexible!).


Is that really such a showstopper otherwise?
I mean, "Indiginus" also doesn't offer drag&drop (due to the Kontakt engine limitation)... however, in this case it's not a problem? Sometimes I can't follow the think-tank behind it.

[lingyai]

Again, in itself - Drag and Drop works (pattern library to host). But the created song can't be dragged yet.

Which is still not a problem as:
a) MIDI out works
b) it's saved inside the project
c) it can be saved as "song" independently

See it as "scratch pad" currently to initially set up your song - then either record it's "performance" as AUDIO track (like you would with a real guitarist) or the MIDI performance. Or... and a lot of hosts have this built in now... start your ideas inside of RealGuitar, then based upon this idea, recreate the chord progression in your host and edit further with any(!) RG library pattern you desire (more flexible!).

Is that really such a showstopper otherwise?

Ok, thanks for clarifying my freind, I see now, no, doesn't sound like a show-stopper. I 'll try the demo and see.

I mean, "Indiginus" also doesn't offer drag&drop (due to the Kontakt engine limitation)... however, in this case it's not a problem? Sometimes I can't follow the think-tank behind it.

[/quote]

No, it doesn't, but by sending midi outside Kontakt and recording that, you're good to go.

To return to something earlier, the sound -- of course this is wholly subjective, I won't try to start a pillow fight (what, no pillow fight emoticon? I shall have to post an angry letter) with you over our respective personal tastes, but just saying ... the Indiginus products just sound sooo just much better to my ears, out of the box and / or using his presets, especially in an out-front, very exposed passage. RG has produced some competent backing for me, but he's been the guy who needed to sit back in the shadows a bit. And Orange Tree ... for me, sound- and playability-wise , is just state of the art.

If however you *do* want a pillow fight ... I get the big red one!

BTW, I speak Sergey's language -- it's not that. He's grumpy. At least sometimes.

[Compyfox]

It's a common point of criticism that the RG samples sound "flat" and "thin" out of the box. Mic Placement, used mic, blended mics (pre-mixed), etc... This all has a huge influence. But - I also see this as advantage as they are definitely more flexible than pre-treated ones.

So no pillow fights - just a matter of preference.

[lingyai]

Maybe I want a pillow fight? Eh? Ever think of that?

[dune_rave]

I was also thinking on the upgrade, but I have v3,
and not much new stuff from there.
I use Realguitar to create guitar-like tunes, tunes I can't create with synths like Sylenth or FM8. Realguitar is just good enough for me, I don't want "more authentic" guitar sounds.