Latest Pop songs - a little bit of analysis on how they sound so perfect

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Let's take a look at this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ0yFYtcUbQ

I'm trying to figure out the magic behind tracks like these - you mean, pretty much all modern pop music - they sound so full, no obvious compression effects, nothing is fighting against anything - the bass is so crisp and clear. Yet I put in a compressor and I've barely touched that thing before things sound squashed. :x

ALL pop music I've heard is 'perfect' if you know what I mean. Specifically, how do they achieve this:

1). Nothing sounds harsh - you can crank up the volume and it still sounds great
2). Everything is heard - nothing is hidden. You can clearly hear every element of the track and yet the focus is strongly on the vocals.
3). Plays well everywhere in all volumes - loud/soft/iphone earbuds/big speakers - you name it - its just perfect
4). Everything sounds massive - the singer's voice sounds so f*kin bland raw - if you watched the AMA awards it was pretty obvious that the 'sound' is from the studio, not the singer.
5). No distractions - the focus is entirely on vocals though there are some crazy sounds underneath.

It's as if they all go to one producer/mixing guru and he fixes them up (like Max Martin). Yet every song I look at the production creds and they're by these random norwegian/swedish dudes I've never heard of. It's as if everyone from Sweden has one sound and its just the perfect 'NSYNC/backstreet boys' pop sound. Explain that. :shock:

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I think it mostly comes down to careful EQ. You just want to make sure that you don't have multiple sounds competing for the same place in the frequency spectrum, stereo field, and time. Yes, there is compression and all of that, but it mostly just comes down to careful arranging of sounds and carving out space for them in the mix.
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arrangement (avoiding frequency clashes) + panning/stereo widening/m/s mambo jambo

compression, limiting, eq etc to taste

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keyman_sam wrote: It's as if they all go to one producer/mixing guru and he fixes them up (like Max Martin). Yet every song I look at the production creds and they're by these random norwegian/swedish dudes I've never heard of. It's as if everyone from Sweden has one sound and its just the perfect 'NSYNC/backstreet boys' pop sound. Explain that. :shock:
I read a comment from Max Martin:
- be prepared to spend a month on a mix

I think that is what it's about - willingsness to work hard, long enough - and paying attention to details you mention.

Some try to copy what MM did - and usually become boring sounding.

There was a series on swedish television called "Made in sweden" - where Andreas Carlsson and others coached some newcomers and songwriters. One guy left after a while - and I understand his choice in that they made his music sound just like the rest they produced a decade ago. This guy was thinking like a true artist - looking to find his sound and not something you heard already.

I have some CD's where I don't find they spent enough time - Pink and Sia on some albums, just some tracks. Sia - I found several examples of harsch sounding doubling of her voice. Pink - some tracks with some strange noise in background that make you think there is something wrong with your listening device.

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It sounds way overcompressed, like usual.

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A surprisingly big step I've found towards getting that sound is parallel compression on everything. Not necessarily a lot of GR (but sometimes!), usually around 6dB, but high ratio and instant attack, mixed in around 20-40%. Used on the drum buss, bass, and vocals, it gives that "clear sustain" or "in your face" sound without overtly sounding overcompressed.

Sometimes you can even sneak it in a bit on the mix buss, with about 3-4dB of reduction mixed in around 20%.

I spent a long time trying different 1176 clones, found fault with each. Now I just use ReaComp and it does the job great.

PS: Once you figure out how to separate these elements of what makes the sound of these pop songs, you can use them without making the actual music sound like a conventional pop song. Since this is a mixing tip, it can apply to any arrangement or instrumentation. This way you can make pop "sounding" music that's not pop per se. I think a group that does a great job of this is Everything Everything

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[double post]

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camsr wrote:It sounds way overcompressed, like usual.
Not at all. I have to disagree - the point is they have all these elements and they are all so clear.

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keyman_sam wrote:
camsr wrote:It sounds way overcompressed, like usual.
Not at all. I have to disagree - the point is they have all these elements and they are all so clear.
It's the arrangement that's clear. The compression is at FM radio levels. There's not enough "Breath" for my tastes.
Actually, I think what's most bad about the mixing is the reverb. It sounds too prominent and masks a lot of the finer details. Tone down that reverb and it'll sound much better, IMO.

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Lessons I've learned so far that improved my mixes:

-Don't mix the instrumental parts of your song and then add the voice last. What happens when you do that is that you create a full sounding mix and then try to stuff your voice into sonic space that has no room left for it. This is not only about filling up all the frequencies with instrument sounds but also with reverbs and delays. If you try to increase the volume of the vocal to counter that, the rest of the arrangement just disappears.

-Mix the kick (starting with around -10 dB), the bass and the vocal first. Then add the remaining drums, then the remaining instruments. Then add delays and reverbs.

-Excessive reverb is the enemy of clear mixes. Don't apply it to instruments until you've established the right volume balance between the kick/bass/vocal and the remaining instruments.

-On instruments, try a very short ambience reverb to add some wetness, with a -25 dB send. Avoid it on the kick and bass to keep the low frequencies in the center or try a -50 dB send of the short ambience send. You can then apply a relatively short plate to the drums (except the kick) and other instruments.

-Pan instruments around your vocal to make space for it.

-On your reverb and delay sends, cut out all frequencies below around 220 Hz to ensure low frequencies are not affected by these effects.

-The busier the mix, the less reverb you should be applying to the vocal. In some cases you don't need reverb at all. Instead, send your vocal to a tape or a slap back delay and to a little bit of a ping pong delay. You will get wetness, sense of space and clarity, without the sound getting lost in the mix.

-To make the vocal stand out, try parallel compression where you create a send with something like a hard hitting 1176 AND distortion, for example Decapitator set to Punish at around 1.5 - 2. Dial in a little bit of this send and you get a clear, hard hitting vocal. Try to add a little bit of the delays you have on the main vocal channel to this send to sit it in the same space as the main vocal.

This is by no means an exhaustive prescription for a perfect pop song mix, but lessons I learned from my journey in that direction...
I witnessed the Nice, France terrorist attack, told the story with a music video: https://youtu.be/eHhw4Bl9HOs

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This is nothing short of spectacular imo

The mix is good too


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il9nqWw9W3Y

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most amateurs fail (including me) because the sounds they choose don't always work together. choose sounds that fit together and your eq job will become a breeze. many amateurs start playing with synths or synth presets but sounds clash if they are chosen wrong, not to mention they don't sound good to the ear from the start. pay great attention to sounds and arrangements. use quality samples and don't overload frequencies. sometimes less is more.

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I got the impression the guys on kvr forum dont bother with pop, like it was too uncool or something.

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tehlord wrote:This is nothing short of spectacular imo

The mix is good too


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il9nqWw9W3Y

I listened to this last week and found it interesting in a nostalgic kind of way. There's a lot of retro going on in pop these days. I heard a similar technique... side chaining electric guitar in a Korean group called AOA, the song "heart attack" only it was a clean funk guitar not distorted but similar principle.

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The mix on the Demi Lovato track is much better than the one in the op. And there's much better mixes than that around too. Check this for sheer perfection of mix - and remember that clarity, punch, hearing details etc. is only part of what mixing is. Mixing's main purpose is to convey what's being said by the songwriter. This achieves it in an absolutely stellar way. Listen to 3.04 onwards - when was the last time you heard a proper keyboard solo that compliments a song and has an actual purpose in a top 40 pop song? Just a beautiful record all round that's on a Prince level of songwriting. I would be very scared if I was the engineer on this - I'd probably f**k it right up lol..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG02zNMFGFo
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