This explains a lot about Cakewalk/Sonar

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Jace-BeOS wrote:
flugel45 wrote:
Jace-BeOS wrote: (The usual paragraphs of Jace-centric ranting).....
Maybe it's people like the Cakewalk CEO that aren't "really using" the product... ;-)
Jace, remind us again.... Exactly what version of Sonar was it where you felt you got screwed over, and how many versions/new owners of CW later will it take before you get this particular chip off your shoulder?
If you're so tired of my "self-centric" postings, you must be able to answer that first question yourself. As to the second: Is it therefore your opinion that I'm not allowed to participate in this thread because it's all just supposed to be in the past for me? That's not your call to make.

:shrug:

Maybe when Cakewalk's behavior turns completely around I will feel no need to be defensive about the group of people I feel I'm still a part of. I read the Cakewalk threads here because they're meaningful to me: I want to see if Cakewalk is improving. So far, it seems they're not. i have opinions beyond the expiration date you want them to have. Tough. For each person that jumps in here to be dismissive of the thousand bugs they feel are immaterial, without having a history of personally experiencing frustrations with the product, I have an opposite opinion to share with them. That's how human beings and social forums work.

I'm not out here crusading to destroy Cakewalk or make you feel responsible for my happiness. Though it would be less irritating if people would curb their "self-centric" commentary for why ALL users should be acting like everything is fine because "I don't have that problem".

If people stopped with that crap, you wouldn't see my crap in response to it.

In that, there's an added complication: I'll speak up in all cases of this kind of dismissive crap in the computing world, whether I'm a customer of the product or not. These excuses and rationalizations are entirely unacceptable in most other industries (though they happen, such as when car flaws kill people, and we see how people react to that). The industry flourishes by enjoying its exception to consumer protection laws (like warranty) and any basic intuitive sensibility (such as "they said it does x so obviously it must, or they wouldn't be allowed to sell it", which those of us experienced in this industry know is not the truth at all). Sensibility has been perverted into a holy crusade of apologetics such as "no software can ever be bug free" and so on.

It's like fighting any other destructive social phenomenon: until people stop promoting an unacceptable policy as being "not an issue", I'll keep arguing against it. You can mute me. I'd be surprised if I'm not on a lot of mute lists already.
Jace, I've always found your posts to contain some of the more rational, intelligent, and well-stated arguments here, while avoiding ad hominems, name-calling, a berating tone, etc. I.e., a breath of fresh air.

My personal experience with Cakewalk as a Sonar customer started around 2000, and ended probably around 2008(?); well, whenever Sonar 7 came out. Sonar 2 XL was my first "real" host, purchased as a graduation from Voyetra Digital Orchestrator, a pure-MIDI platform that could drive the soundfonts on my Soundblaster but had no plug-in support. I loved Sonar and found the workflow to be really easy to get my head around, but found myself completing almost no songs. As I had an overabundance of cash in those days (o tides of fortune!) I bought Cubase almost on a lark to see if it might "click" better. I found it confusing and unintuitive and so shelved it for a few years while I puttered around with Sonar, still finishing very little. Again I decided to try Cubase, but really devoted the time to learn its features and workflow, and this time it "clicked" and I found myself actually making completed songs with it. So I was loving Cubase but still had some unfinished projects in Sonar that I wanted to bring to a closure, and thus I sporadically upgraded Sonar. Sonar 4 was giving me some major issues with the plugin manager not registering all my plugs, the audio engine continually crapping out, and the whole program instantly vaporizing in a puff of bug-smoke with alarming regularity. The (by now) familiar refrain of "it must be your setup" was given (by official support and/or forumites, I forget which), which seemed silly because my computer was made by a major manufacturer with no hardware mods, I was running standard drivers, etc. Further, my music hosts by other manufacturers didn't have these problems. So I swore off Sonar: enough! Then Sonar 7 came along with its promised "gapless audio engine" and I succumbed to the sales pitch; well, guess what: same audio dropouts as before. When a DX plugin was constantly crashing Sonar, the official support response was that it was the plugin maker's fault. Etc. My experience with Sonar at that time was that it was an unstable mess and Cakewalk wasn't taking responsibility for its bugs. That was the last time I upgraded.

So, my points being:

a) The perception of Cakewalk releasing buggy software isn't new

and

b) If something isn't working for you and you've given it a fair shot, try something else.

Nowadays I used mostly Cubase and Live and couldn't be happier with my setup. :)

Oh, and my impression of the Cakewalk forum is that it was at least somewhat cultish and unprofessional, although I don't mean "unprofessional" in an entirely negative light, as there were several friendly amateurs there willing to help people out with problems. This, again, was from several years back.
A well-behaved signature.

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It's just a question of balance.

Page after page of rants by people with issues or chips on their shoulder (because they are the ones motivated to post again and again and at length) gives anyone reading the thread impression that Sonar is unstable/full of bugs. We get it - your set-up doesn't work in some way and they haven't 'fixed it' so you are mad at them.

My experience on windows 7, 8 and 10 machines is that Sonar X3 and Platinum have both been rock-solid and whilst there are plenty things I can't see how to do intuitively with it, to be fair Sonar can usually do them if I RTFM or ask someone. It just works. Sonar Plat under Win 10 is especially impressive - loads super-fast and hasn't crashed on me once in 3 momths.

Yes they do let some old VSTs and even features within Sonar lapse/go undeveloped. They say they keep them in for backwards compatibility but they could probably clean them out at some point. And yes they may be a little shirty/defensive on their forums, but it's a really impressive bit of kit.

It is for the pro-sumer rather than the real pro?
Well probably yes - the pros use Pro-tools and (for the Apple lovers) Logic with the EDM crowd using FL and those that like to perform live or mess around with push Ableton.
But stuff like ARA integration, Melodyne and AD2 is state of the art as is the Skylight interface, comping, and vocal aligner.

99% of the user base will be hobbyists and people that just like to make and record music. But that's the same for the vast majority of DAWs. Only Pro-Tools is really going to have any higher % of professionals due to its cost and it being standard in all the pro studios.
Sonar Platinum, Ignite and Ableton Live 9 DAWS
AIR Hybrid 3, Synthmaster, Z3ta+2, Addictive Drums 2, True Piano Amber, Rapture, Dim Pro, BFD Eco, AAS Strum, Addictive Keys, Synth 1 VSTs
Nektar LX61, Korg MicroKey and Akai Pro LPD8 Pad

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Jace-BeOS wrote:...I want to see if Cakewalk is improving. So far, it seems they're not. ......
Based on what? This thread? The same three or four detractors stating their usual rants about their bad experiences with Sonar years ago? I rest my case.

If you actually read the thread cited here (asking Sonar Platinum users if they're better off than a year ago), you'd see that a vast majority of the respondents think they are. Yes, better off. Sure, there are a few with issues, but the numbers skew overwhelmingly positive. It's not even close.

So, there's their opinion. And then there's your very loud one over here (echoed by a few others who also haven't used Sonar in years).

And that's the whole point, isn't it?

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congratulations Cakewalk , after many month of waiting that Rapture Pro bugs gots adressed , and updating today to the new one breaks everything , it want start anymore , only with fatal error messsage and it closed .

its the second time now they put an update out which are not working .

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It is really a question of just whose balance we are looking at.

If there is balance the negative stuff will balance out with the good, right?

The issue here is that anyone who is having or had issues is being told "it works fine here" without even thinking that there may be an issue with the software.

Blame the hardware, blame the OS, blame the user, it all comes down to this...don't you think it should work for everyone?

I like what I see here with Platinum but I still have some issues with it. And that should not bring out the defensiveness here.
Barry
If a billion people believe a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing

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It is also the matter of our choice or taste and what we want!

When Apple bought e-magic Logic, I found myself must choose either Cubase or Sonar. I chose Cubase, then kept going back and forth from Cubase to Sonar. There were no other big players in Windows but those were the only obvious choices that time. Ok, there were promising DAWs like eXT and Tracktion. Ableton was just implementing Midi, so the choices were limited.

Cakewalk started Project 5 but didn't continue with it. That was a very smart move but unfortunately they killed it. But, things began to change! FL Studio is not anymore the Fruity loops tool, Ableton Live was going up with Midi and production, Studio One followed, then lately Bitwig. Even Mac only DAWs, like DP and Pro Tools they have their version for Windows! And let's not forget Reaper!

So, it is not anymore a choice between two DAWs. Managers of Cubase and Cakewalk should realize this! There are many great choices out there, so if I feel DAW 'X' better suits my workflow, there is nothing would keep me chained to a DAW that I keep feel bad when using it! Old projects?! All songs can be exported as stems and midi files (if any) with their notes, so why keep using a DAW for just this reason if I don't feel fine or productive with it, OR I feel better in other DAW! There is no commitment here! I just choose the one I feel the best for me and I list the reasons why I moved to another DAW (or maybe not! There is no obligation for that!).

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Oh, I see flugel is starting his BS again.

Any idiot knows that regardless of if you liked 8.5/X1 that X2 was a f....ing RIP OFF. Quit fanboi'ing and realize a bunch of people were ripped off with X2. No, those people will likely NOT be buying the next version, but unless you bought this forum from BEN, other people have EVERY f**king RIGHT to complain about it.

Get over yourself.

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incubus wrote:Oh, I see flugel is starting his BS again.

Any idiot knows that regardless of if you liked 8.5/X1 that X2 was a f....ing RIP OFF. Quit fanboi'ing and realize a bunch of people were ripped off with X2. No, those people will likely NOT be buying the next version, but unless you bought this forum from BEN, other people have EVERY f**king RIGHT to complain about it.

Get over yourself.
Hmm, I see you are starting your BS again hibidy.
A new account / username and the same old tedious content, complete with the same old personal attacks and insults.

In what way was Sonar X2 a rip-off, given that users had the option to demo it before buying it ?
Why won't you delete this account as I have requested Ben ?

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hibidy is incubus? :o

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my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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whyterabbyt wrote:
EnGee wrote:hibidy is incubus? :o
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2#p6270502
It gets better.
Here, he even talks about himself, or rather his alter ego, in the third person:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8#p6304788
Why won't you delete this account as I have requested Ben ?

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RockinMillie wrote: In what way was Sonar X2 a rip-off, given that users had the option to demo it before buying it ?
As I recall it was criticized for just release a "X2a" - even though people had long lists of bugs.

It seems CW saved everything for X3 - which was major update in many ways.

I think there are demos/trials now for Sonar, but it took a while and not so long ago.

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Their forums seem pretty dead tbh. I would have thought new updates for their long, almost said abandoned now, oops now i said it :oops:, synths would create more waves among the users. I mean, for me, it's pretty much sensational that Z3TA gets an update. 2011 last update for Windows, 2012 last update for Mac, and people waiting for bug fixes a long time. Tbh, with the bugs i faced, i have my doubts though that Cakewalk has a decent quality and test department, because there's really bugs they should have stumbled over. I just hope enough people are reporting bugs now, so they can really nail them out now.

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RockinMillie wrote:
incubus wrote:Oh, I see flugel is starting his BS again.

Any idiot knows that regardless of if you liked 8.5/X1 that X2 was a f....ing RIP OFF. Quit fanboi'ing and realize a bunch of people were ripped off with X2. No, those people will likely NOT be buying the next version, but unless you bought this forum from BEN, other people have EVERY f**king RIGHT to complain about it.

Get over yourself.
Hmm, I see you are starting your BS again hibidy.
A new account / username and the same old tedious content, complete with the same old personal attacks and insults.
.....
Holy Batman! If I didn't see it confirmed in the other thread (and somehow I had missed it!), this post would've clued me in without a doubt: Hibidy was the only one who called me out by name. Hey, Hibidy! I mean, incubus! :hyper:

Bloody hell, man -- after your disappearance, I thought something truly bad had happened to you. It's not something you wish on anyone. Sure, we disagree sometimes (mostly in this subforum) but we've agreed a lot, too. I know you don't want to hear it from me, but glad you're still with us! :tu:

Back to topic... incubidy (or even better, wait for it...hibiscus!), you're back to your old form, complaining about X2/X1/v8 again... Exactly what I was saying. Either you agree that this is the thread to do that over and over, or it isn't. Clearly there are two camps on this, and there's nothing anyone can add that will change that. I think both sides have had their say, so I'm out. :ud:

Happy Black Friday Week everyone! And hey, we got hibiscus back! :party:

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RockinMillie wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:
EnGee wrote:hibidy is incubus? :o
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2#p6270502
It gets better.
Here, he even talks about himself, or rather his alter ego, in the third person:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8#p6304788
Thanks for the clarification and sorry for the off topic.

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