New 88-Key Komplete Kontrol S-Series Keyboard & NKS Plugin Format

[SJ_Digriz]

TETO.

hehe yeah for sure. I find the Kronos a bit squishy. I like a crisper strike action.

I think we all agree that all of these units that use the same mass production fatar beds are pretty bad. But, they aren't the worst. Just try the recent Arturia or an M-Audio keyboards ... ick.

[K-Bee]

Oh well! I bought an AKAI ADVANCE 61 3 month ago, since a 88 key controller wasn't confirmed for either Akai or NI. And now it's here, but I ain't buying it! The Advance is a great partner to my Kurzweil and it just have to be that way for now.
At $999 it competition is steep! I wonder if Akai will have an answer to this?

[SJ_Digriz]

Oh well! I bought an AKAI ADVANCE 61 3 month ago, since a 88 key controller wasn't confirmed for either Akai or NI. And now it's here, but I ain't buying it! The Advance is a great partner to my Kurzweil and it just have to be that way for now.
At $999 it competition is steep! I wonder if Akai will have an answer to this?

The advance was the front runner for me, but was waiting on an 88. Now we'll see. But I have to play both before buying since they will be the things I plunk on 95% of the time.

[Lotuzia]

watching the promotional video is like a flash-back to when they sold Kore, the same claims about multiple synths and tagging etc. Its almost like they are reinventing Kore attached to keyboards. Thing is I was caught out when they stopped Kore so I am very wary of buying more HW from them

It's got a long way to go before it gets close to Kore but at least it's a step in the right direction.

Except this time they have devoted to the partners companies the work/burden to make their units compatible with NI system. So its less work for them, and -probably- good opportunities for companies who choose to make a partnership with NI. It should -imho- offer more guaranties that the system will be supported for a long time, as I dont think even NI could survive well another abandonware à la Kore, this time with much more pricey hw units.

■Arturia.
■U-He.
■Output Audio.
■Soundiron.
■Heavyocity.
■Spitfire.
■ProjectSAM.
■Softube.
■XILS Lab.
■Waldorf.
■e-Instruments.
■Sonokinetic.
■Evolution Series.

As for the keybed, at this price, I expect it to be rather good quality.

[SJ_Digriz]

watching the promotional video is like a flash-back to when they sold Kore, the same claims about multiple synths and tagging etc. Its almost like they are reinventing Kore attached to keyboards. Thing is I was caught out when they stopped Kore so I am very wary of buying more HW from them

It's got a long way to go before it gets close to Kore but at least it's a step in the right direction.

Except this time they have devoted to the partners companies the work/burden to make their units compatible with NI system. So its less work for them, and -probably- good opportunities for companies who choose to make a partnership with NI. It should -imho- offer more guaranties that the system will be supported for a long time, as I dont think even NI could survive well another abandonware à la Kore, this time with much more pricey hw units.

■Arturia.
■U-He.
■Output Audio.
■Soundiron.
■Heavyocity.
■Spitfire.
■ProjectSAM.
■Softube.
■XILS Lab.
■Waldorf.
■e-Instruments.
■Sonokinetic.
■Evolution Series.

As for the keybed, at this price, I expect it to be rather good quality.

The problem is that from the comments various folks like U-he have made, integration with NKS is still extremely preliminary. It could be a couple of years before you see useable coverage. I'm not sure how helpful that is. Also, I still find the dearth of controls to be off-putting as a primary controller. Those are my main cons. But, there is a lot to like as well.

[Big Tick]

Well, I can tell you firsthand, there are already tons of plugins that don't even support basic VST features, like returning the current program name. Adding another layer of API's that developers need to implement is not going to fix that for the thousands of plugins out there in the wild.

[SJ_Digriz]

Well, I can tell you firsthand, there are already tons of plugins that don't even support basic VST features, like returning the current program name. Adding another layer of API's that developers need to implement is not going to fix that for the thousands of plugins out there in the wild.

lol, you would be a quite the expert on that problem That's why I think Akai took the right approach by using a non-host integrated wrapper. It has it's drawbacks as well though. I don't think there is a perfect way to do it with all the hosts rolling their own way of dealing with plugin management and developers ignoring vast portions of the spec (for good and/or bad reasons).

[rod_zero]

I think that stuff like NKS requesting compliance to standards will force developers to implement the standard in more reasonable ways. I really dislike when the plugs don't expose the presets to the DAW for example.

[Big Tick]

Well, if that happens, kudos to NI for succeeding where Steinberg, Ableton, ... and pretty much every DAW manufacturer failed. For info, some of the plugins in their "early adopters" list still don't export program names, and don't even notify the host of preset changes. These are very basic VST features, I would love to see these implemented before we even talk about a new standard for automatic mapping, tagging, and controlling light keys....

[SJ_Digriz]

Well, if that happens, kudos to NI for succeeding where Steinberg, Ableton, ... and pretty much every DAW manufacturer failed. For info, some of the plugins in their "early adopters" list still don't export program names, and don't even notify the host of preset changes. These are very basic VST features, I would love to see these implemented before we even talk about a new standard for automatic mapping, tagging, and controlling light keys....

KVR needs a like button ..

[aMUSEd]

Well, if that happens, kudos to NI for succeeding where Steinberg, Ableton, ... and pretty much every DAW manufacturer failed. For info, some of the plugins in their "early adopters" list still don't export program names, and don't even notify the host of preset changes. These are very basic VST features, I would love to see these implemented before we even talk about a new standard for automatic mapping, tagging, and controlling light keys....

Indeed. Also I would be concerned that leaving it with the developers would only mean that factory banks get converted, who is going to do all the addon banks? It would still be much better if plugin devs adhered to basic standards which allow their presets to be batch imported, but then they would have all been compatible with Kore long ago, or Zen/Advance now and maybe NI would never have abandoned Kore in the first place.

[Sjefke]

I will keep wayting for an 88 key version of the Nektar Panorama...

Which has near to perfect daw and vst integration and on top of that has an integrated comtroll scheme for the NI komplete kontrol software...

I have several worries about this keybed...

- keybed quallity and noise
- does it support a halfdamper pedal?
- the 2 pedal connections of the other models will not do on an 88 key
- will it have aftertouch?

[BERFAB]

I'm very interested in the new S-88.

My current keyboard is a 20+ year old Ensoniq KS-32 (76 weighted keys with aftertouch). It's a Fatar keybed also and has served me very well all these years. Only recently is one key starting to give me some trouble, so I figure it's time for an upgrade.

A review I just read of the new NI S-88 said that you can get just an 88 weighted key controller for a fraction of the price, but I have no clue as to what he's talking about. Under $1,000 sounds like a decent pricepoint to me for this, but I'd like to know if there are better, cheaper options.

I've looked at the MOFX line and the Kronos. Has anyone put together a list? The Keystation 88 pro used to be the go-to on everyone's list, but they don't make it anymore.

-B

[JCJR]

What are some brands of workstation class 88's I could look up? Never heard the term workstation class for a music keyboard.

Sorry, probably making up my own terminology there .. Things like the Kronos, Motif, PC3 etc .. the $3500 series of all in one sound machines. They typically have really good keybeds. Although they are drastically different and different people swear on different ones. I like the PC3 keybed myself, but hate the actual unit.

Yeah keyboard feel preference is very subjective. I don't have much finesse playing piano and play fairly heavy handed, so can't play piano styles well on a real light or "clicky" keyboard. On piano style playing, everything tends to come out FFF on a light keyboard, unless I force myself to play real light.

OTOH I don't have good fast technique either, even after decades of playing. So if a keyboard is too stiff, just can't play some parts from fighting the keyboard.

For synth or organ style playing, I like light shallow keyboard as long as its not floppy feeling. Hammond or clavinet is light and fast ferinstance.

You can find the differences in real grand pianos as well. Some grands are light and others stiff. Strong classical guys sometimes have weights attached to the keys to make em stiffer and more responsive. A tech can somewhat adjust the feel of a nice grand, though there are some natural design variations.

Sometime ought to drive to hotlanta or nashvegas and play some of the current keyboards to judge the feel. In the past and I suspect today as well, korg weighted keys felt too stiff and slow for my tastes. I mail ordered a kronos 61 key a couple years ago, to stack on the kx88 as my "light" keyboard.

The unit had problems and went back after a week, but when ordering it I figured whatever the keyboard would feel like, I could get used to it. Probably could have got used to it, but would have been a chore. It was fairly stiff for unweighted, with spring resistance constant all the way down. So you had to "follow thru" on each keypress, rather than hit it and forget it, if that makes sense. But even being stiff for unweighted, was still difficult to play piano style on it without notes either being too quiet or too loud. Maybe because of the constant resistance all the way down.

Some of the older yamaha stage piano keyboards felt pretty damn good. The kx88 felt on the stiff side, almost like playing a rhodes. But after 30 years either I got used to it or it loosened up. It is still very solid and quiet and smooth. The only time it starts feeling stiff is when trying to play difficult fast parts, when I have to start fighting it. A fella would work up a sweat trying to play jerry lee lewis style rock'n'roll on the thang. But it is easy and expressive to play keybass, synth or string parts, guitar or clav type parts. Even not that bad for organ playing.

When I went to namm every year, would always plunk for a few minutes on the kawai stage piano of the year, and they always felt pretty good. Haven't played their triple sensor wood action, but judging from prior experience, seems I could put up with it good enough. Their taste in feel seemed to match mine for many years, maybe still the same.

Many years played a roland-rhodes ep on a 6 night gig (kx88 at home). It probably had the same mechanism as old RD300, or maybe different, dunno. That was a fun non-fatiguing keyboard. Non clacky and smooth, on the light side for a weighted action. But not so light that it couldn't be played well with a heavy hand. The mechanics seemed solid, but playing the thing so many hours, had to tear it down about yearly and clean/replace the "rubber nipple" key contacts. Eventually the conductive plastic wore off some of the contact circuit board and those keys quit working.

Can't blame things for wearing out under heavy use, but a better contact design would have given the keyboard more longevity. I wore out a helpinstill conventional piano action down to a nub in about 5 years steady playing, so the roland lasted longer than that anyway.

Just get the impression most keyboard actions are not built very good nowadays, perhaps erroneous impression. If I have to buy another 88, would at least want to buy one that was built right.

[BBFG#]

I'm very interested in the new S-88.
...
A review I just read of the new NI S-88 said that you can get just an 88 weighted key controller for a fraction of the price, but I have no clue as to what he's talking about. Under $1,000 sounds like a decent pricepoint to me for this, but I'd like to know if there are better, cheaper options.
-B

Been off researching the comparable ones a little closer.
Because my requirements include aftertouch...
Only three (including the NI S88) seem to come up through the filters.

Arturia KeyLab 88__________MSRP: $ 999.00 Adprice: $799.00 (listed with just hammer action)
Akai MPK88________________MRSP: $1499.00 Adprice: $799.00
Native Instruments S 88_____MRSP:$ 999.00 Adprice: TBA

So given just that, its price is in keeping with available 88key controllers w/aftertouch.