I used DI's back in the day to balance my old synths..do you guys balance your hardware synths?

[ObsoleteAcc99]

for balanced i/o into my interface.

What do you guys recommend these days? it seems most hardware is STILL unbalanced, but some have strange specs like +4db but UNbalanced.

Would the average balanced to unbalanced converter made these days for small money with this specific purpose in mind, simply to convert unbalanced levels to balanced, work with all these different output specs, or is the latter irrelevant.

please bear with me, it's been 14 years since I used hardware.

Also, i have tons od spare cables still but i just checked and they are all balanced.

So, if you would recommend keeping the hardware synth's outputs exactly as they are, would a balanced cable going from their unbalanced output into my balanced interface (RME 802 or apollo 16, am still deciding between the 2), work ok? Or should i order some decent unbalanced cables instead?

Cheers

[ObsoleteAcc99]

ok it seems these are the easy answer:
http://www.soundonsound.com/shop/Product.php?ProdID=424

specifically made for taking hardware synths into balanced audio interfaces..

but my inputs are trs 1/4"! (well half of them are at least).

So what, would a balanced XLR to TRS converted then work for the balanced end of the cable?

before anyone asks, no way am i going to create my own pseudo balanced cable and solder..

[planetearth]

for balanced i/o into my interface.

What do you guys recommend these days? it seems most hardware is STILL unbalanced, but some have strange specs like +4db but UNbalanced.

Would the average balanced to unbalanced converter made these days for small money with this specific purpose in mind, simply to convert unbalanced levels to balanced, work with all these different output specs, or is the latter irrelevant.

please bear with me, it's been 14 years since I used hardware.

Also, i have tons od spare cables still but i just checked and they are all balanced.

So, if you would recommend keeping the hardware synth's outputs exactly as they are, would a balanced cable going from their unbalanced output into my balanced interface (RME 802 or apollo 16, am still deciding between the 2), work ok? Or should i order some decent unbalanced cables instead?

Cheers

This might be a bit easier to figure out if we knew what you had as far as balanced/unbalanced inputs/outputs, and what (if anything) is running at +4 or -10.

When I hooked up my 22-year-old synths (unbalanced outputs) to my new Yamaha mixer (unbalanced inputs, balanced outputs), I heard no noise at the input of my E-MU 0404 (unbalanced inputs and outputs). And I didn't have to crank the input faders to get things to match in level, either.

But before you start buying a lot of cables to convert your balanced to unbalanced (and/or vice-versa), it would help to know what your specific situation is.

Steve

[Uncle E]

I use DI's with our Rhodes and CP70 but I just plug the analog synths straight into the board.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

for balanced i/o into my interface.

What do you guys recommend these days? it seems most hardware is STILL unbalanced, but some have strange specs like +4db but UNbalanced.

Would the average balanced to unbalanced converter made these days for small money with this specific purpose in mind, simply to convert unbalanced levels to balanced, work with all these different output specs, or is the latter irrelevant.

please bear with me, it's been 14 years since I used hardware.

Also, i have tons od spare cables still but i just checked and they are all balanced.

So, if you would recommend keeping the hardware synth's outputs exactly as they are, would a balanced cable going from their unbalanced output into my balanced interface (RME 802 or apollo 16, am still deciding between the 2), work ok? Or should i order some decent unbalanced cables instead?

Cheers

This might be a bit easier to figure out if we knew what you had as far as balanced/unbalanced inputs/outputs, and what (if anything) is running at +4 or -10.

When I hooked up my 22-year-old synths (unbalanced outputs) to my new Yamaha mixer (unbalanced inputs, balanced outputs), I heard no noise at the input of my E-MU 0404 (unbalanced inputs and outputs). And I didn't have to crank the input faders to get things to match in level, either.

But before you start buying a lot of cables to convert your balanced to unbalanced (and/or vice-versa), it would help to know what your specific situation is.

Steve

ok the roland integra has 8 outs - 1 and 2 are balanced so that's fine, 3-8 are unbalanced TRS.

Virus TI snow is unbalanced stereo out.

Nord lead A1R - 4 unbalanced line level outs


That's all for now, rest will be decided in due time.

Interface - likely to be RME 802 - 8 balanced line inputs, 4 balanced mic/line inputs, so 12 analog inputs total.Only need 1 mic really, so can have 11 for synths in this case..

See i will be using this instead of an analog mixer, cause it has a dsp realtime mixer - no need to monitor through DAW at all.

The other option and more preferable sound wise, would be UAD apollo 8 which has 4 balanced mic/line in, and 4 balanced line in. Preferable due to the extensive uad realtime FX. But more expensive and less inputs, i would eventually need another one!

i only need 1 input for mic.. i am happy to use integra main out and track one at a time when it comes time to mix. Virus will be noisy as will Nord. So there's 6 inputs taken as is, 1 for mic, leaves one for second mic or mono synth..For a fact i KNOW i need to balance the nord and snow, especially the moment the usb cable is plugged in. I head maybe the behringer HD400 can fix this, but there is no info whether it lowers the output to mic level like a DI.

(confusion ending rant) : really because of 8 dedicated line inputs and 2 totally separate mic inputs, the RME makes sense and it's also 1k cheaper. But to able to drive the synths into those luscious UAD effects in realtime.. you get my predicament there LOL! hard choice!

[planetearth]

for balanced i/o into my interface.

What do you guys recommend these days? it seems most hardware is STILL unbalanced, but some have strange specs like +4db but UNbalanced.

Would the average balanced to unbalanced converter made these days for small money with this specific purpose in mind, simply to convert unbalanced levels to balanced, work with all these different output specs, or is the latter irrelevant.

please bear with me, it's been 14 years since I used hardware.

Also, i have tons od spare cables still but i just checked and they are all balanced.

So, if you would recommend keeping the hardware synth's outputs exactly as they are, would a balanced cable going from their unbalanced output into my balanced interface (RME 802 or apollo 16, am still deciding between the 2), work ok? Or should i order some decent unbalanced cables instead?

Cheers

This might be a bit easier to figure out if we knew what you had as far as balanced/unbalanced inputs/outputs, and what (if anything) is running at +4 or -10.

When I hooked up my 22-year-old synths (unbalanced outputs) to my new Yamaha mixer (unbalanced inputs, balanced outputs), I heard no noise at the input of my E-MU 0404 (unbalanced inputs and outputs). And I didn't have to crank the input faders to get things to match in level, either.

But before you start buying a lot of cables to convert your balanced to unbalanced (and/or vice-versa), it would help to know what your specific situation is.

Steve

ok the roland integra has 8 outs - 1 and 2 are balanced so that's fine, 3-8 are unbalanced TRS.

Virus TI snow is unbalanced stereo out.

Nord lead A1R - 4 unbalanced line level outs

If you have TRS jacks, they're usually 1/4", balanced jacks. Where did you read these are "TRS"?

According to Sound on Sound magazine, "The Integra 7 offers eight analogue outputs.... The 'A' signals are provided through balanced quarter-inch TRS and XLR sockets, and as an S/PDIF signal, while the others are presented on unbalanced quarter-inch sockets. Stereo inputs are also provided on the font and rear panels, and, if signals are presented to both of these, they are summed and treated as a single input." [italics mine]

Steve

[ObsoleteAcc99]

for balanced i/o into my interface.

What do you guys recommend these days? it seems most hardware is STILL unbalanced, but some have strange specs like +4db but UNbalanced.

Would the average balanced to unbalanced converter made these days for small money with this specific purpose in mind, simply to convert unbalanced levels to balanced, work with all these different output specs, or is the latter irrelevant.

please bear with me, it's been 14 years since I used hardware.

Also, i have tons od spare cables still but i just checked and they are all balanced.

So, if you would recommend keeping the hardware synth's outputs exactly as they are, would a balanced cable going from their unbalanced output into my balanced interface (RME 802 or apollo 16, am still deciding between the 2), work ok? Or should i order some decent unbalanced cables instead?

Cheers

This might be a bit easier to figure out if we knew what you had as far as balanced/unbalanced inputs/outputs, and what (if anything) is running at +4 or -10.

When I hooked up my 22-year-old synths (unbalanced outputs) to my new Yamaha mixer (unbalanced inputs, balanced outputs), I heard no noise at the input of my E-MU 0404 (unbalanced inputs and outputs). And I didn't have to crank the input faders to get things to match in level, either.

But before you start buying a lot of cables to convert your balanced to unbalanced (and/or vice-versa), it would help to know what your specific situation is.

Steve

ok the roland integra has 8 outs - 1 and 2 are balanced so that's fine, 3-8 are unbalanced TRS.

Virus TI snow is unbalanced stereo out.

Nord lead A1R - 4 unbalanced line level outs

If you have TRS jacks, they're usually 1/4", balanced jacks. Where did you read these are "TRS"?

According to Sound on Sound magazine, "The Integra 7 offers eight analogue outputs.... The 'A' signals are provided through balanced quarter-inch TRS and XLR sockets, and as an S/PDIF signal, while the others are presented on unbalanced quarter-inch sockets. Stereo inputs are also provided on the font and rear panels, and, if signals are presented to both of these, they are summed and treated as a single input." [italics mine]

Steve

that's exactly what I said. But the snow has +4dbu UNbalanced jacks. Which is what i meant by "some are strange". If you read what i said about the integra, i simply said what you said.

AI really am upset i missed that virus ti2 desktop now. It was on ebay for 2,600 AUD and ebay had 100 off that day off anything over a certain price, so in cart it was 2500 aud.

I contacted the guy just to make sure it was brand new. and he was like, oh that sold off ebay, better adjust that.

He can't get me one at the same price, cause it was bought before the aussie dollar fell 30%, so it was at the "old" price. So now they are 3 and a half grand here just for the desktop It's true, i checked loads of stores.

snows can be had for around 1600-1700 so that's why i will choose that.

access annoy me in a way as they never budge on price and they seem to have gone up also even at JRR and american stores, and the USD is way stronger than it used to be against the euro, so work that out!

Anyway the ti desktop has balanced outs. The snow has unbalanced. It's a well known fact, that the snow makes a heck of a noise through the outputs once the usb is plugged in, which is necessary for me to use for patch/project recall.

Either that or i forget the snow's analog outs at all and use it purely in logic through USB, but the latency is not ideal for live playing in that case.

[Uncle E]

I really am upset i missed that virus ti2 desktop now. It was on ebay for 2,600 AUD and ebay had 100 off that day off anything over a certain price, so in cart it was 2500 aud.

I can get you a new one for that price, including shipping. Also, we have a used Snow in stock for $899 USD ($1,225 AUD + around $50 AUD shipping).

[BertKoor]

Regarding DI's, in the usual home studio you don't need it. Cheap ones will add extra noise, and also the better ones, it is an extra component in your chain and I firmly believe less is better.

Why would you need a balanced signal anyway? Just because your interface / mixer inputs can take it? Wrong reason, it's not inherently better. I'm yet to see a 1/4" balanced input that can't handle unbalanced signals.

Regarding the -10 vs +4 dB level, if it has proper trim / gain you won't really notice.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

I really am upset i missed that virus ti2 desktop now. It was on ebay for 2,600 AUD and ebay had 100 off that day off anything over a certain price, so in cart it was 2500 aud.

I can get you a new one for that price, including shipping. Also, we have a used Snow in stock for $899 USD ($1,225 AUD + around $50 AUD shipping).

I saw that Eric but someone is selling a snow locally for 999 buy it now or make an offer. It was 2.5 years old. He would take 900;

I would need to know the specs of yours, and if it is still in warranty, otherwise i would just by a brand new one for $1650 locally before the "old price" stock runs out. $400 bucks for local warranty AND brand new is worth it IMO.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

ok someone got it, damn, for 960
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Virus-TI-Sno ... 1852441773?

edit again, damn, eric has polar for pittance more than the desktop. S/H though, but ....must... know..... condition.... and...... how....... old..... it......is.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

Regarding DI's, in the usual home studio you don't need it. Cheap ones will add extra noise, and also the better ones, it is an extra component in your chain and I firmly believe less is better.

Why would you need a balanced signal anyway? Just because your interface / mixer inputs can take it? Wrong reason, it's not inherently better. I'm yet to see a 1/4" balanced input that can't handle unbalanced signals.

Regarding the -10 vs +4 dB level, if it has proper trim / gain you won't really notice.

i think you are misunderstanding. I can plug it in fine, get a perfectly fine level, but there will be noise that I don't want.

Australia's power is amongst the dirtiest in the developed world, it's also unreliable.. I have a top of the line UPS (not battery backup, it's an auto conditioning on line true sine wave model), and the imac is plugged into that, and when i had my brand new snow (now sold, the imac is 4 yo), just like others say in the access forums, the moment the usb AND the audio jacks are used, it sounds noisy. Doesn't happen with the balanced models.

[lfm]

I think the need for balanced for such a high level, as from synths - is less urgent.
Synths can run directly to line inputs - and is not amplified so much - and any noise from outside is so much lower level than signal.

If mic level it's more urgent with balanced, since it is to be amplified quite a bit before used.

But a rack mount di box like Behringer Ultra DI Pro 800 has 8 such slots that produce mic level for mixer. So synths to input, and you get balanced xlr out for mixer. But for synths I think it is a waste.

[sin night]

[...]It's a well known fact, that the snow makes a heck of a noise through the outputs once the usb is plugged in, which is necessary for me to use for patch/project recall.

I don't have a Virus, so I may be completely wrong, but sometimes it is enough to disconnect the ground from the usb cable. It doesn't work with all the devices, though (my Minitaur works perfectly with that trick, while I had no success with the Gaia and the MicroBrute).

It is as easy as covering the ground pin (the 4th one) with some tape, as described here. Worst case, the keyboard/synth is not recognized untill you remove the tape (no harm in my experience); so in my opinion it's worth a try before trying more complex and expensive solutions.


I have a Mac Mini (2011 model) and every synth/fx connected with usb device is noisy (Waldorf Pulse 2 and Eventide Timefactor are the only exceptions), so I definitely know what you're talking about. I have everything connected through midi, with the exception of the Minitaur (because of its editor) and the Timefactor (just to spare a port on the midi interface).


Another solution could be an usb isolator, but I never tried this kind of devices so I can't speak about them (except to take care about their speed and power requirements, I did a rapid search and I saw different models). AFAIK, this kind of devices are more popular between the hi-fi guys.

[sin night]

I usually don't balance my synths, but there are some exceptions:
- My Volcas go through a dedicated d.i. to avoid noise (I power them from a shared power supply, so they make a lot of digital noise, unless each of them goes into an isolation transformer - which is what I did - or an high impedance input). I built those D.I. so the output is balanced (it makes sense once there's a transformer involved). They suck a bit of tone though (they are cheap transformers, so it's kind of expected).
- Sometimes I play my MS-20 Mini through a WA-12 for tone, so I go into my soundcard with a balanced signal.

I don't have an expensive d.i. to try (I may buy one in future), but with the cheap ones I found the tone a bit sucked away (this happened especially with the Minitaur losing some weight). They stop the digital noise, which I can't stand (even if it's very low), but I can't stand also the tone to be sucked away, so this is the reason why I go direct into my soundcard without anything else in the middle (except some fx, when required).