October Contest: Gossip

[D.H. Miltz]

Scream for me, Long Beach.

[Daniel Pompougnac]

Translated with Google, caution !

I would just say one thing.
It is violence for me to vote. It seems easy to choose two or three pieces which I prefer, but have classified ALL the songs in my order of preference does not mean anything and is really too difficult. Why emphasize the compositions that we do not like classifying them? This is not positive.
I had already asked for a change, a few years ago, and I know that change is not easy, but I remain very uncomfortable with that.
I repeat, I think that choosing for example the first three songs that we like should suffice.
Is really, it's not a bit masochistic for a musician to come and submit a song and incurring rankings and subjective assessments that can hurt him ? his may also discourage.
I know that some musicians on the KVR forum don't want to submit a piece because they're afraid and I understand them.

And worst of all, is to receive a very high score of another competitor and give it badly because his song you do not like his song ((or otherwise). Argl !
Sorry, I'm not doing that, and I do not want to.

The most important are the reviews, the desire to create a time-limited, pleasure to have a theme around which to compose ...
Okay, I stop, it is just an opinion.
It's always painful to vote. Really.

*************************************************

Je voudrais juste dire une chose.
C'est une violence pour moi de voter. Il me paraît facile de choisir les deux ou trois morceaux que je préfère, mais devoir classer TOUTES les chansons selon mon ordre de préférence ne signifie rien et est vraiment trop difficile. Pourquoi insister sur les compositions qui ne nous plaisent pas en les classant ? Ce n'est pas positif.
J'avais déjà demandé un changement, il y a quelques années, et je sais bien que changer n'est pas simple, mais je reste vraiment très mal à l'aise avec ça.
Je répète, je pense que que choisir par exemple les trois premiers morceaux qui nous plaisent devrait suffire.
Est-ce que réellement, ce n'est pas un peu masochiste pour un musicien de venir soumettre une chanson et donc de s'exposer à des classements et des appréciations subjectives qui peuvent lui faire du mal ? Cela peut aussi le décourager.
Je sais que certains musiciens sur KVR ne participent pas au Contest à cause de cela, parce que cela leur fait peur.

...Et le pire du pire, c'est de recevoir une très bonne note d'un autre concurrent et de lui donner une mauvaise note parce que son morceau ne vous plait pas (ou le contraire). Argl !
Désolé, je ne sais pas faire ça, et je ne veux pas le faire.

Le plus important, ce sont les critiques, la volonté de créer dans un temps limité, le plaisir d'avoir un thème autour duquel composer...
D'accord, j'arrête, il s'agit juste d'une opinion.
C'est chaque fois douloureux de voter. Vraiment.

[Mister Natural]

It's always painful to vote

I understand where you're coming from
I wish you would have been on one of my jurys while I studied vocal & composition in college !

[Wopelka]

Sure, the voting process is always difficult. But for me, it is one of the main elements making this contest so interesting.

[davidstiles]

I know how you feel, Daniel. I don't especially like ranking tracks, either. But I do think it has its uses. The comments are great (and very appreciated), but the voting gives a different kind of aggregate feedback that lets us know how well our music has connected with a group of listeners.

[folderol]

I would add that every time you play a piece of music, you are in effect 'voting'. Why did you play that particular one? Do you play it more than others?

[Laguna Rising]

it's all about the theme, imho.

Voting is a process that requires you are being completely honest with yourself.
"I like Jerry's piece more than anyone. But Jerry is not completely on theme"
"Willie is slightly less interesting and original. But his music is following the theme, right on the money"
"Ok, so: Willie then Jerry then Robbie ...and so on"

When the theme is open (free for all): no problem there.
You vote for the songs you like the most.
But please be honest with yourself: what do you want to reward ?
The easy and cheesy, catchy melodies or the experimental, unexplored, outside the beaten path ?
The polished, all vsts, all inside the box, simple song or maybe something with real instruments, searching the tone, recording, editing, mixing ?
Look inside yourself and there will be no doubt.

We are all big boys, we won't cry if you will not vote for us.
We understand each and every one of us is different, have different feelings and different ways of perceiving a melody. And it generate different things in every one of us.

Maybe you put inside a song three or four notes meant to be evocating a famous melody you were whistling in your youth. And you are so happy, and proud about it. And it is the highlight of your track, the climax. It means a lot to you, but in the end no one gets it.

So it's all subjective...
Many times I read reviews stating the opposite of what my opinion is.
You love the bassline in Bobby's song, it drives the track. Then Tommy writes his comment: "I don't get it. It doesn't work for me, and the bass is confusing"

As I wrote last month ---> September gossip

It's called biodiversity...


Just my 2 cents

Cheers

[Daniel Pompougnac]

Translated with Google, caution !

Interesting debate and thank you for your answers.

I think we are never honest in our votes, because fortunately, we are not robots.
There are many elements that can unconsciously change our votes and not related to music, I'm sure of that In the best case: sympathy for someone, and in the worst cases, unconscious (or conscious) calculations, etc.).
I repeat, we are not robots, and that's because I'm an adult I know I'm biased and an imperfect person.

However, I do not think it is necessary to cancel the vote, I just think that we must respect others and thus not impose on anyone the fact that he finds himself at the bottom of a list, just that.
Besides often, between the 8th and the 15th piece, I am totally incapable of knowing what songs I prefer to vote or not, and I vote sometimes anyhow.

The first 3 choices largely sufficient, in my opinion. And reviews for all (as did Wopelka, Skipscada and others, etc ...)
I also think, as I said before, there would probably be more participants in the contest if it were a little less rough, with less risk of feeling humiliated.
It's like when you are on stage, you prefer flowers or tomatoes ? I prefer the flowers (or nothing), but not tomatoes.

******************************************

Intéressant débat et merci pour vos réponses.

Je pense que nous ne sommes jamais honnêtes dans nos votes, parce qu'heureusement, nous ne sommes pas des robots.
Il y a de nombreux éléments qui peuvent modifier inconsciemment nos votes et qui ne concernent pas la musique, je suis sûr de ça (dans le meilleur des cas : sympathie envers quelqu'un, et dans le pire des cas, calculs inconscients ou pas, etc.).
Je répète, nous ne sommes pas des robots, et c'est parce que je suis adulte que je sais que je suis partial et imparfait.

Cependant, je ne pense pas qu'il faille annuler les votes, je pense juste qu'il faut respecter autrui et donc n'imposer à personne le fait qu'il se retrouve en bas d'une liste, juste ça. D'ailleurs souvent, entre le 8ème et le 15ème morceau, je suis totalement incapable de savoir quels morceaux je préfère ou pas et je vote parfois n'importe comment.

Les 3 premiers choix suffiraient largement, à mon avis. Et des critiques constructives pour tout le monde, comme l'ont fait Wopelka, Skipscada, et bien d'autres, etc.
Je pense aussi, comme je l'ai déjà dit, qu'il y aurait probablement plus de participants au contest si c'était un peu moins rude, avec moins de risque de se sentir humilié.
C'est comme quand vous jouez dans un concert, vous préférez les fleurs ou les tomates ? Moi, je préfère les fleurs, ou rien, mais pas les tomates.

[Mister Natural]

the only other angle I'd offer on the "ranking" discussion here . . . is that, as a participant, I really don't care where I get ranked. Competition is kinda the wrong title here - almost every musician I know is not a competitive person.
Win or "lose", I make music for ME
Miltz sets out a idea/theme every month and, as part of my discipline(if I were a Hawaiian, I'd call it my Aloha) is to challenge myself to create a short piece that speaks to his idea. My discipline is to push myself to produce one every month. Whether anyone else here "likes" that piece or ranks it better or worse than any other's Aloha is immaterial to me. I post it within this forum because I have so much respect for the other composers here and sincerely value their feedback. Any comments / suggestions / criticism is vastly more important(again; to me) than their votes.

peace
Eric

[davidstiles]

Miltz sets out a idea/theme every month and, as part of my discipline(if I were a Hawaiian, I'd call it my Aloha) is to challenge myself to create a short piece that speaks to his idea. My discipline is to push myself to produce one every month. Whether anyone else here "likes" that piece or ranks it better or worse than any other's Aloha is immaterial to me. I post it within this forum because I have so much respect for the other composers here and sincerely value their feedback. Any comments / suggestions / criticism is vastly more important(again; to me) than their votes.

peace
Eric

Well said, Eric. I really do think that's why most of us participate in the contest... a chance to take up the challenge of an assigned theme, and to get feedback from some great musicians with a variety of different tastes and compositional styles.

[Daniel Pompougnac]

We say all the same words, and I'm according with you.
But I diverges from you this : why rank ALL the pieces ? Why to want someone at the end of the ranking ?

[D.H. Miltz]

But you don't rank all the pieces (unless a given contest has 10 or fewer entries). If you vote for your top three, you're still ranking (someone still comes in last: number 3), and you're saying that you didn't find the rest of them worthy of one of those three spots.

Edit: I understand discomfort with ranking, I just don't see how going from a list of 10 to a list of 3 does anything about it.

[Wopelka]

I remember the time when the list of 10 was implemented. According to my memories, it was from popular request because of the difficulty of picking only 5 entries and giving points to so few entries whilst there were so many tracks deserving a mention. Back then, however, we had never less than 20 entries each month (and easily more than 30), so it was far from ranking everybody. Personally I am for the status quo but, considering the currently low number of entries each month, I would not consider absolutely wrong to use a list of 5 again.

That said, in an all emotional perspective, I personally feel better receiving one point in a top 10 list than no mention at all because of not making the top 5 cut... and if I don't make the top 10 of anybody, I am ready to admit that something is not really working with my track.

[Wopelka]

Double post

[Wopelka]

Triplette