This explains a lot about Cakewalk/Sonar

[trimph1]

OK...how is the Platinum version working out for you peeps who have it?

[xbitz]

perfectly...

... with SSD

[xbitz]

--double--

[JoseC.]

[
Anybody who has grown up with hardware knows that everything has it's idiosyncrasies - even the high end gear...You just learn to work with it and get on with the job...That's what professionals do...

Exactly.

[EnGee]

It is good if Sonar still works for many users. In spite of my pessimistic feeling about Cakewalk, I wish they succeed inside me because healthy competition is good for us (whether we are hobbyists or professionals). Other DAWs will be alert and work hard if Sonar could take from their market share, and that means better features in other DAWs

I lost trust in Cakewalk after their cliche of 'new beginning' every time. The last time I had faith, it was in Sonar X3 and when I noticed how many hidden bugs are there and no one wants to fix them, I deleted it completely with all Cakewalk products from my PC. It felt so good really
Anyway, I'm glad that I got rid of my account and sold it (although with 80% loss, but that is OK, it is better than 100% loss!).

[deastman]

It is good if Sonar still works for many users. In spite of my pessimistic feeling about Cakewalk, I wish they succeed inside me because healthy competition is good for us (whether we are hobbyists or professionals). Other DAWs will be alert and work hard if Sonar could take from their market share, and that means better features in other DAWs

I lost trust in Cakewalk after their cliche of 'new beginning' every time. The last time I had faith, it was in Sonar X3 and when I noticed how many hidden bugs are there and no one wants to fix them, I deleted it completely with all Cakewalk products from my PC. It felt so good really
Anyway, I'm glad that I got rid of my account and sold it (although with 80% loss, but that is OK, it is better than 100% loss!).

Years ago, I worked at Apple for a while, testing their new computers before they shipped. At that time, I remember we released one new machine with over 500 open bugs. This is something I like to bring up once in a while, because Apple is presumably such a wonderful and flawless company. Of course, this was ages ago, and in no way a reflection on the current state of that company, of which I have no inside knowledge. But my point is, every product has bugs and glitches and imperfections. Cakewalk releases updates that fix bugs. They may not have the resources to fix all of them, and perhaps they go after the ones which are the easiest to fix first rather than some longstanding issues which are difficult and costly to track down. But they do fix bugs, just like everyone else. I'm pretty sure that you could take any DAW, and if you looked closely at their user base, you'd find just as many people complaining about bugs and developers not responding to user complaints and all of that.

[EnGee]

Years ago, I worked at Apple for a while, testing their new computers before they shipped. At that time, I remember we released one new machine with over 500 open bugs. This is something I like to bring up once in a while, because Apple is presumably such a wonderful and flawless company. Of course, this was ages ago, and in no way a reflection on the current state of that company, of which I have no inside knowledge. But my point is, every product has bugs and glitches and imperfections. Cakewalk releases updates that fix bugs. They may not have the resources to fix all of them, and perhaps they go after the ones which are the easiest to fix first rather than some longstanding issues which are difficult and costly to track down. But they do fix bugs, just like everyone else. I'm pretty sure that you could take any DAW, and if you looked closely at their user base, you'd find just as many people complaining about bugs and developers not responding to user complaints and all of that.

I understand that no DAW is bugs free (at least the ones I have owned). But, this must not be an excuse to not fix old bugs!

They don't have resources since more than 10 years ago. They didn't have resources under Roland and now under Gibson also?

Anyway, the bugs are relative to how you use the program. As I said, if you just record your audio and use the mixer, Sonar might be fine.
For me, it is just a 'showy' DAW with some ancient effects and instruments! (DXi? this is long dead technology!). Arpeggio? not really! it is Arpeggio for few known patterns, but the other 100+ are sequences, not arps!

The staff editor? It is a joke to work with it. It makes me feel frustrated and I have tried for hours to calm down and tell myself "maybe you are missing something, try again slowly, maybe you are not getting the workflow right"!

And did someone answered me about the Midi loop recording bug?! Still there? Still no resources to fix it? Sure, you ask what the use of it? It is essential if you are loop a midi area to record a beat/drums, you want to see what you have recorded when looping, right? No only when you hit stop, you see all the recorded notes!!

Step sequencer: Can you record into it while playing? Also, it is not as powerful as it seems! Try the one in Cubase and see how it is easier and better implemented. For example the flam of two or three. In the end I feel it is poorly implemented and I go using the piano roll fighting my way to write a drums track!

Matrix: Can you record into it as in Live's cells (or clips)? No! so, you just drug and drop from already recorded (or from the browser) to it. It is a player because you can't edit the cell contents!

And the stability! What can I say?! .... Known synth like Arturia SEM V, which has been very stable in all other DAWs I have, it just crashes Sonar when I drag it and drop it in a new track?

So, when I started Sonar, my big smile is always fading away gradually the more I used it! So, why I should keep using something that brings frustration to me?!

Oh and the new policy? Updates for one year, then you must buy it! Why not do it as before? Updates are free to fix this major release till the next major version is released. But, of course that won't work because X1, X2, X3 are actually the same major version! But let's fool people and tell them every one is a major update! And what is Platinum? It is a paid 'fixes' for the previous X major version!

Reaper gives you two major versions for the same price with endless fixes. The developers are so transparent in the forums. Also, Studio One for how long owner of version 2 received updates (and additional things for free like Fat Channel). I compared to those two because they are my two favourite DAWs, although for practical reasons I must choose only one which is S1 to work with.

I had 4 DAWs and needed to choose only one to work with because it was messy. Sonar was the easiest one to eliminate from the list, but the other 3 (S1, Reaper and Cubase) took me forever to decide and finally chose S1 as my main.

And what is that new tool in the Platinum? Midi brush? Cubase introduced Chord Tracks and innovative way to work with chords, while Sonar introduced Midi brush!
Studio One introduced Scratch Pad to enhance the composing experience. What Sonar did? oh maybe toolbar enhancements!

I really don't regret a bit that I abandoned Sonar (and all Cakewalk's products). I feel really much better now with another DAW which is not perfect, but most of what I do, I do it without any problem and with enjoyment. Everyone is free to choose the best DAW that works for him/her I suppose

[lfm]

And what is that new tool in the Platinum? Midi brush? Cubase introduced Chord Tracks and innovative way to work with chords, while Sonar introduced Midi brush!
Studio One introduced Scratch Pad to enhance the composing experience. What Sonar did? oh maybe toolbar enhancements!

Since this is a pissing contest - I want to in too.

I think Sonar implementation of freeze of track and synths is superior to Cubase style and S1 too. In Cubase all is hidden, only sounding and exist in pool only. S1 does not have multiple outs in track arranger view, only in mixer view - so no visibles from multi out VSTi's there either.

In Sonar you get audio on each VST instrument output and can continue work on it, adding plugins etc on snare out and the hits are there without looking at midi snare line.

Mix recall in Sonar is stunning feature, a much improved track version thingy also including plugins and automation and most thing selectable.

Track lanes/layers is there already from Sonar Artist - in Cubase you need Cubase Artist.

Track Templates are there in Sonar Artist already - you need Cubase Pro for track archives. I think S1v3Pro have it, from a KVR post I saw.

But Cubase Arranger tracks is really nice feature and among top three voted for Sonar as well, no idea if it becomes reality though. Not sure from demos on S1v3 whether you have these thumbnails to work with as in Cubase, demos only showed doing drag-n-drop of full project width in timeline which is more cumbersome.

Cubase Elements 7/8 always worked really well for me, so it's good, but severely cut down compared to how Cakewalk do it. And actually enjoy working in Sonar compared to gui-eating dialogs in Cubase, and odd implementation of send slots where some are dedicated pre and some post. Presets(track/plugin) added to a slot cannot be removed and things like that(I asked Steinberg support), you can only replace with another preset.

[jens]

OK...how is the Platinum version working out for you peeps who have it?

The 64 bit Version doesn't even install here - and the 32bit version won't update to the latest version, with the installer giving out the same error message -with X3 it was the other way around - only 64bit would install - and that install error exists for years now - there's no piss-poorer crap than Sonar in the entire universe.


edit: no, it worked now - I could manually install Hopkinton 32bit - it's just that Command Center automatically (and without option) tried to install the 64bit version, even though this Installation failed before and the 32bit version is thus the only working one available on my system

- b.t.w.: the installer ignores the VST path you can define in Command Center - and also: Cakewalk just say there's a new version of CC that they released in July and you should update to it in case you have an older version installed - yet there seems to be no way to verfiy from within CC, which version is actually installed on your System - these are all just random examples of how pathetically poor everything Cakewalk is - it's all shoddy, lazy coding any shareware developer would totally get flamed for.

[Jim Roseberry]

Sonar Platinum is working well here.
Mostly straight up Rock production. (Recording/editing/mixing)
Moderate use of virtual-instruments... but no EDM (not a lot of automation of Vi parameters, no step-sequencer, etc).

I don't really care about bundled 3rd-party stuff.
Some of it is useful (especially if you're just starting out).
If you've got preferred quality 3rd party plugins, bundled content isn't overly exciting with any DAW application (including Sonar).

You can throw out any DAW application... and a seasoned user can shoot holes in it.
All about which one suits you the best... and nobody can really answer that question for you.
You'll make compromises no matter which one you pick.
Personally, I like having multiple DAW applications... using each for its strengths.

I think you'll find Sonar Platinum (and the Forums) to be somewhere between the extremes.
Platinum isn't perfect... but it's certainly an effective tool for a lot of users.
The Forums aren't perfect, but they're no worse than other forums.

[xbitz]

.... but no EDM (not a lot of automation of Vi parameters, no step-sequencer, etc)...

just a remark about http://www.cableguys.com/midi-shaper.html, which can be used for creating CC based automations quickly, Sonar enables to create MIDI feedback loops /and routing isn't track but device based/ so the MIDIs can be routed back into the input of a track from itself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NluJuMrpn7g

so the Sonar setup on their page a bit misleading or dunno, Lfo Tool from Xfer is working the same way

--

Chord Tracks can be replaced with AutoTheory 2.0 (... there is a Sonar setup on their channel)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpQvhKj3Sbc

ok it's not the same, but better in some point of view

[EnGee]

Chord Tracks can be replaced with AutoTheory 2.0

I thought it is a new feature in Platinum!!

OK, this is an additional $49 tool that can be purchased and used with any DAW right? While in Cubase it is integrated into the DAW (starting from Elements 8 ).

So, it is not a valid comparison

[incubus]

Sonar Platinum is working well here.
Mostly straight up Rock production. (Recording/editing/mixing)
Moderate use of virtual-instruments... but no EDM (not a lot of automation of Vi parameters, no step-sequencer, etc).

I don't really care about bundled 3rd-party stuff.
Some of it is useful (especially if you're just starting out).
If you've got preferred quality 3rd party plugins, bundled content isn't overly exciting with any DAW application (including Sonar).

You can throw out any DAW application... and a seasoned user can shoot holes in it.
All about which one suits you the best... and nobody can really answer that question for you.
You'll make compromises no matter which one you pick.
Personally, I like having multiple DAW applications... using each for its strengths.

I think you'll find Sonar Platinum (and the Forums) to be somewhere between the extremes.
Platinum isn't perfect... but it's certainly an effective tool for a lot of users.
The Forums aren't perfect, but they're no worse than other forums.

I have A HUGE objection to this (also found at presonus forums)

ANYTHING works w/o 3rd party stuff or doing a vast array of electronic music (EDM is just a tag people that work with audio to mostly belittle electronic music makers, maybe not you personally, but it's a buzzword at the very least) It's simply UNACCEPTABLE that "that" is what a product is based on for the last 10 years.

If that's all someone has to do, (beep)-all, hell yeah it will work. But then why make something VST/3/rewire/ compatible? They ought to merge the few people that work this way and presonus into one gigantic "f... u EDM guys, we do audio" closed only to a few people (all others will be banned) nonsense. It's close enough already

Seriously, I respect you. You probably know more about this business than I do, but that is absurd observation.

[digitalboytn]

Since this is a pissing contest - I want to in too.

[xbitz]

last thing about EDM just for the fuller picture ( I should create some series about it ) synth layering and automation grouping are also missing ones from Sonar by default

synth layering can be solved some MIDI note dumper VST (with an empty MUX for example), create a master track with the dumper and attach the other synths to it (Sonar has track templates so it have to do in only once) as u can see on the video it can dump out MIDIs from its own fx rack with MIDI feedback (well done Cakewalk) too, so common envelope shapers also can be created

group automation can be solved with Blue Cat Remote and Sonar inner control grouping, http://www.bluecataudio.com/Tutorials/T ... ups_Sonar/ it can read Sonar own automation curves too, so grouped automations can be created without third-party envelope shapers too

so just quickly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsfrVxlBxZc

maybe it savings some time for somebody, I've f* with them at least a half a day, Sonar is definitely a fun DAW just have to find the workarounds for the basic things in it (to can do the same things as in FL Studio, Live), but after it ... so brilliant one and much faster working with it than with the others