Admiral Quality Poly-ana offers custom skinning (and win a free license)!

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Teksonik wrote:
fmr wrote: "So please, if you're embarking on a new skin project and you hope to earn a license for it, contact us early and show us some previews of your work; maybe a mockup or partial mockup of the full GUI. Then we can let you know early on whether we think you're going in a direction with it that we'll be interested in sharing, and help guide you towards a look and feel that we can both be proud to share here."
I read it but knew early that I wouldn't be emailing vs seeing what existing users/admins/designers in this thread think. Especially once I saw there is no real layered editable template just a static label layer to work with.

End users/designers should want to be innovative in a group setting where instead of a designer/creator working towards a final result in a closed loop it's a group so you see everyone's feedback. Designers also tend to get influenced by others so this may spark some creativity in them if they see what others are doing/the feedback they get... I also don't think Mike is going to have time to address all the design stuff in about a month once you guys have xx designers ripping this template we're creating apart in photoshop and working right away - vs fussing with the current template which has a lot of limitations and will drive designers crazy not having full control of the labels (probably another reason you're not recruiting many atm - redoing those labels so that they are editable for future skinners was a good chunk of my day/night. So consider this a community driven WIP for a template, not a final skin).

:)
Last edited by Norbz on Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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That's all well and good but just know that AQ has already released a new beta that blocked certain skinning abilities. By communicating directly with Mike you can assure that you won't be wasting your time or the community's time doing something that will end up not working in a future beta. He has a certain vision for what new skins will or won't be so I suggest you don't waste any more of your time on a WIP that might not W...... I can't put it any simpler.

Obviously it would be better if Mike could interact here in a group setting but that can't happen so...
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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That's fine :). Hi Mike, if you're reading this please bare with me for a little until this gets done I think you'll eventually thank me for what I enable future skinners to do here.

* Resizing so it fits all machines (I made it less vertical, Mike see's this as a tiny interface now - yet my labels are bigger within a smaller space, and multiple instances are a bit easier now).

* Redoing labels so future designers can edit them/revert them to original/add/remove them for future versions and features...

* Giving it effect treatments.

Not doing anything to try to break it or change it nor have I yet. Just improve the template for other designers as Mike is not a designer/template setup person, and it shows :).

You guys can resist and you can even throw all this out the window - but I think in time you'll come back to this and realize this is how you should have set it up from the start. In photoshop, easy to work with, and all the small issues re placement and labels and such are literally just tweaks which future designers will be able to control in a snap with this setup (and they'll be able to change full size/wide versions, make other templates from, rather easily. AND you can offer the label layers/static AI/PDF like you do now through this approach too - although it's not ideal to not have it layered).

EDIT: I apologize if I seem a bit forward. I've been through this process many times and this Poly approach to the template is both untraditional and a bit abstract to the way most designers/branders like to work. I'm doing top level branding and grunt work to pass off the source files to future designers that may not want to start from scratch like I did and hence won't enter the contest/users will have less skins, this will get drawn out a lot more than now, and Mike will have his hands full in emails from confused intermediate designers..
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Went through it all - responses are prefixed with **** within the quote.
Teksonik wrote:
Norbz wrote:I see. If you are his voice, you can post the issues on his behalf?
Ok here goes........

QUOTE:

"Next time you're in there you might want to tell Norbz that it's looking nice, but he's totally f'ed up the control labels in a lot of places.

Just at first glance...

- Osc FM Mod Sources are labeled AM, making two AMs.
***FIXED

- PH(ase) and DEST labels on the Oscs appear swapped - no, wait - superimposed! WTF? LOL!
***FIXED

- The DM/WFM and PWM/PM mode switches on the oscillators are centered, making it not clear they only apply to the two mod sources on the left. (A cool way to treat this would be if the switch was under the Mod Source/Amount section, and changed its label! It's too bad I had to put these in anyway, I hope to take them out in Poly-Ana 2.x, providing 2 more Mods for each osc, one more for the filters, and one more for the amps. It was done originally to keep the CPU usage down, as well as to save screen real-estate. I've already determined that I can make the 2.x voice add these and yet still read the old 1.x patches though!)
***FIXED/Editable

- The envelope velocity knobs have lost the word "VEL" on all but the first one, making them conflict in apparent meaning with the ADSR knobs. (Maybe label that whole section could be labeled VEL?) Also, the R-Vel button only applies to the Vel R-Time knobs. That's why they were next to each other originally. At the very least a line connecting them would be appropriate.
***FIXED/I understand now

- The square buttons are fine but they don't change in brightness, just color, making them impossible to see for some people. (A surprising 8 percent of males are color blind!) Odd in an otherwise all monochrome interface. A darker off state and/or some surrounding glow effect when on (which is too cool to not use, really) would go a long way towards making them more visible.
***This is just a photoshop mockup not a live version, will fix once we're XML'd.

- Strange inconsistency in font, size, color and border in the section labels.
***Editable at will/I will normalize.

I'm sure there's more. Changing the labels positions is one thing, but rewording them... that implies you have a deep understanding of this synth architecture and Norbs clearly doesn't. I'd never accept one like this for the contest. But would if stuff like that could be fixed. (As well, pretending Mod Source dials don't exist will disqualify you. All designs must support both modes. But they don't have to be big dials. You could make a control that fits into the very tiny area he's left for the Source dropdowns.)
****Not sure what that part means just yet, I believe I included everything you have in your UI, if I missed a dial/knob totally then shame on me - please elaborate sorry I don't see what I missed.

I really wish he'd contact me. It would save him a lot of time. I don't know why almost nobody has. The Skins page invites them to. And I'm quite willing to help with tricky issues. Again, I *want* winning skins to come in but, as is, this isn't one yet. If he can address the above though..."
****H-man and I will get this singing and it will be a template for all future designers to follow easily in Photoshop vs your current setup, and you'll have way more submissions - once you approve/like the finalized setup.

"- Another thing I don't like, KEY TRACK has become KEY, which isn't very informative. TRACK would be better (who's to say your controller even has keys? :) )
***FIXED

- He's also separated the Mod Source and Amount controls in the Amp sections. They should *always* have the same positional relationship to each other everywhere they're used, to keep from driving the user crazy.
***FIXED

- But one fatal flaw that's going to destroy the whole design. He made the knobs go only 270 degrees instead of 300. (At least as far as I can tell. This is SUCH a tiny interface.) If only he had bothered to read the instructions and contact me (which was one of the instructions).
****Nope, I did the knobs right, but this image is just a photoshop mockup where all the dials are also just photoshop and they are all pointed up, the live version has live values of each knob, done right, and it's 365 not 300 (as per your skins page :)).

- Osc 3's sync should be labeled Osc 2 sync, not 1. (They sync in a chain. Another thing only Poly-Ana can do! I very nearly allowed them to sync in a loop but it was too easy to make a sound that didn't make any sound.)
***FIXED

- Also, Sat and DC cut aren't "Q" (presumably Quality) controls, they're simulation controls, of which Quality is only one of them.
***FIXED/put SIM as the label, can be whatever.

People think I made this up randomly but in fact every single thing was an intentional, conscious decision and a trade off against less desirable options."
***Passbacks will fix that until everyones a happy camper.

"I just hate to see people putting wasted effort into skins that I'll have to reject if they submit them. That's why I invited anyone interested in doing it to contact me early in their process on the Skins page."

****Nothing wasted, I still don't think you get that I'm making a template for others to follow, not trying to just submit a final skin to your contest. Think top level, I'm branding and prepping a proper template like you're supposed to when you buy any template from Envato/themeforest/monstertemplate/any interface template provider. You don't have a PSD template yet you're calling on proper branders/designers, and can't participate in the group, not so ideal and designers will curse you for the current setup or just not participate - until this gets done that is. Then they will be able to create skins in no time and have free will to edit anything fast. Please see my contribution as just that, not a contest entry, trying to help your biz/branding/market positioning more than anything and I don't think you're seeing it for what it is - no prizing equates to a branding treatment for a template for other designers and if this isn't used it's no biggie I'll repurpose it with a few tweaks for something else easy enough or just throw it on my brandingtemplates site.
END QUOTE

So you sending a simple e-mail to Admiral Quality would have been much better....... :wink:
preview/background labels. H-man feel free to finalize Mikes adjustments :)

Image

Image
Last edited by Norbz on Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Nice one Norbz, I will be back into it soon. :tu:

Edit: Oscillators, filters, envelopes and the mod sections are done .... Getting closer now but it certainly takes a little patience.

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Hey Norbz,

The part about pretending mod source dials don't exist - This means that for the contest, a skin must allow the mod sources to be either dropdowns or dials. In the original skin the mod sources were actually big knob dials, the drop downs were an option. The dials had the mod source names written on them. There's no way they would fit in your skin but he goes on to say that they could be tiny dials instead of the original big ones. Of course the names wouldn't be legible on the dials. So I'm not sure if he's saying your skin would disqualify you or not since it wouldn't fit the original dials but maybe could fit little ones? I don't know what the point of little ones would be since you wouldn't be able to see the mod source anyways. If you're not interested in getting a free license of poly-ana, I wouldn't worry about it. Mod source dials simply wouldn't work in your skin and most people wouldn't want them anyways.

It's looking good by the way.

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Looking good Norbz... Template or not, I would use Poly-ana if it were setup like this.

Definitely looking forward to seeing final submissions and I really hope this mockup doesn't get squashed in favor of something resembling more of the original. Of course just one person's opinion (my own), but I like this direction.

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Good job Norbz. The layout is nice and clear on this one ... and I love the idea of a resizable skin. The current one is a little small for me.

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Echoes in the Attic wrote:Hey Norbz,

The part about pretending mod source dials don't exist - This means that for the contest, a skin must allow the mod sources to be either dropdowns or dials. In the original skin the mod sources were actually big knob dials, the drop downs were an option. The dials had the mod source names written on them. There's no way they would fit in your skin but he goes on to say that they could be tiny dials instead of the original big ones. Of course the names wouldn't be legible on the dials. So I'm not sure if he's saying your skin would disqualify you or not since it wouldn't fit the original dials but maybe could fit little ones? I don't know what the point of little ones would be since you wouldn't be able to see the mod source anyways. If you're not interested in getting a free license of poly-ana, I wouldn't worry about it. Mod source dials simply wouldn't work in your skin and most people wouldn't want them anyways.

It's looking good by the way.
The skin looks great. Good job Norbz :tu: Regarding the big knob dials - That's one of the problems with the original GUI, and why, when we choose the drop-down lists, we end with a lot of wasted space. So, why not "pretend" they just don't exist (as they shouldn't)? I think it's impossible to come up with a good and coherent skin that accommodates those.
Fernando (FMR)

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Thanks for the feedback guys.

H-man just passed the xml'd version back to me - I'm doing fine tuning and it's going fast.

I understand now about the dials. As a virgin to Poly-Ana and not knowing its history, the dropdowns are a much better option as a potential end user. Especially since there are so many of them on-screen. But I get it now, and future skins can have room for them however the break up of knobs with a dropdown is also nice on the eyes (vs just knobs/dials everywhere), anyway I don't see or have the code for that part but you guys can implement it easy enough.

I think one more thing I'll do once I'm done this is a screen-capture video walking through the UI in photoshop and using a few skins live in a daw to give future skinners and mike much less prep/instruction/passback time.

Everyone owes H-man a huge thank you too - saved probably half a week to a week and now things are easy for me to finetune/finalize. Expect a working skin with knobs in place ready to use a little later tonight :).

N.
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fmr wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:Hey Norbz,

The part about pretending mod source dials don't exist - This means that for the contest, a skin must allow the mod sources to be either dropdowns or dials. In the original skin the mod sources were actually big knob dials, the drop downs were an option. The dials had the mod source names written on them. There's no way they would fit in your skin but he goes on to say that they could be tiny dials instead of the original big ones. Of course the names wouldn't be legible on the dials. So I'm not sure if he's saying your skin would disqualify you or not since it wouldn't fit the original dials but maybe could fit little ones? I don't know what the point of little ones would be since you wouldn't be able to see the mod source anyways. If you're not interested in getting a free license of poly-ana, I wouldn't worry about it. Mod source dials simply wouldn't work in your skin and most people wouldn't want them anyways.

It's looking good by the way.
The skin looks great. Good job Norbz :tu: Regarding the big knob dials - That's one of the problems with the original GUI, and why, when we choose the drop-down lists, we end with a lot of wasted space. So, why not "pretend" they just don't exist (as they shouldn't)? I think it's impossible to come up with a good and coherent skin that accommodates those.
Yeah it's an interesting one. I ended up just "nulling" out the offset values for the dropdown-list/combo-box thing, effectively ignoring the Mod dials all together, as mentioned above.

I appreciate that the mod dials show all the available mod sources right there in the UI but IMHO it doesn't make the work-flow any easier due to the labels ending up quite small and (even with the detents) hitting the desired mod destination a bit of a dexterity test :x yeah ...you know what I'm talking about :lol:

Maybe someone can come up with a solution however I prefer the drop-down menus and would be happy just using those. ymmv.

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Norbz wrote: Everyone owes H-man a huge thank you too - saved probably half a week to a week and now things are easy for me to finetune/finalize. Expect a working skin with knobs in place ready to use a little later tonight :).

N.
My thanks to H-man too. And please, can someone tell me... Will I be able to test this skin with a trial version of the new 1.3?
Last edited by fmr on Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

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fmr wrote:And please, can someone tell me... Will I be able to test this skin with a trial version of the new 1.3?
Should be. You may just need to email the Admiral for a trial key (if you haven't already that is).

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H-man wrote:
fmr wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:Hey Norbz,

The part about pretending mod source dials don't exist - This means that for the contest, a skin must allow the mod sources to be either dropdowns or dials. In the original skin the mod sources were actually big knob dials, the drop downs were an option. The dials had the mod source names written on them. There's no way they would fit in your skin but he goes on to say that they could be tiny dials instead of the original big ones. Of course the names wouldn't be legible on the dials. So I'm not sure if he's saying your skin would disqualify you or not since it wouldn't fit the original dials but maybe could fit little ones? I don't know what the point of little ones would be since you wouldn't be able to see the mod source anyways. If you're not interested in getting a free license of poly-ana, I wouldn't worry about it. Mod source dials simply wouldn't work in your skin and most people wouldn't want them anyways.

It's looking good by the way.
The skin looks great. Good job Norbz :tu: Regarding the big knob dials - That's one of the problems with the original GUI, and why, when we choose the drop-down lists, we end with a lot of wasted space. So, why not "pretend" they just don't exist (as they shouldn't)? I think it's impossible to come up with a good and coherent skin that accommodates those.
Yeah it's an interesting one. I ended up just "nulling" out the offset values for the dropdown-list/combo-box thing, effectively ignoring the Mod dials all together, as mentioned above.

I appreciate that the mod dials show all the available mod sources right there in the UI but IMHO it doesn't make the work-flow any easier due to the labels ending up quite small and (even with the detents) hitting the desired mod destination a bit of a dexterity test :x yeah ...you know what I'm talking about :lol:

Maybe someone can come up with a solution however I prefer the drop-down menus and would be happy just using those. ymmv.
26 Envelope dropdowns x 18 choices = 468 more labels or fancy ass dials we'd have to make. Silly to force that on users or skinners and a hell of a lot of unnecessary repition.

** Just wrapping up/cleaning up the photoshop file, almost done here.
** Yes you'll be able to use this in the demo, that's all I have here (just have to put the custom skin in the proper folder/path within your programfiles/admiral quality/...)
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Looking good, guys! Really excited to see the end result here.
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