Admiral Quality Poly-ana offers custom skinning (and win a free license)!

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Norbz wrote:Re 3d vs flat that's not a biggie I can remove gradiants/3d easy enough.

Now that a few skins are popping up, I would love to continue (and make some flat(ter) ones..), however not with the current layout.

I'm not sure who's supposed to be providing the "less height" version so it fits everywhere and kills some of the dead space, so I took a shot at it. Also redid the labels with fonts so ppl can simply edit them easier.

Don't mind the SKIN at all for a moment, just look at the saved space/rearrangement of stuff. While it's a bit tight, if this can get XML'd it will finally fit all screens and still allow for layout/knob size changes and adjustments.

**I only did one oscillator and the filters to see how much vertical space I could save - the other two osc/rest of the UI can be done easy enough once/if this vertical shift happens.

Image

Right now it's a photoshop file, and it's 4:30am - I'll be crashing but if someone wants to take this from the current state and adjust accordingly (i'll prepare the background, you can even use current knobs/elements from my other skins as placeholders to move them into place), at that stage I think it would be easier for everyone to make skins and know they'll work on all screens/layout has been finalized/etc.

Thoughts?
I like your work. Please keep going. This is a breath of fresh air, IMO (and finally someone comes with a proposition to save wasted space).
Fernando (FMR)

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Ingonator wrote:FWIW i DO KNOW taht my skin is not perfect yet (also by my own standards if that helps...) but i am wiorking on that.
Just work more on your skills and publish progress updates less frequently. That's the message. Noone here wants to insult you or make you give up. (Well, maybe Teksonik - just a little. :oops: ) I know it's hard to receive criticism for your efforts and best intentions, but some days ago you were going like crazy with these half-baked updates - doesn't look good.

Peace! :tu:

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Norbz wrote: Now that a few skins are popping up, I would love to continue (and make some flat(ter) ones..), however not with the current layout.

I'm not sure who's supposed to be providing the "less height" version so it fits everywhere and kills some of the dead space, so I took a shot at it. Also redid the labels with fonts so ppl can simply edit them easier.
I had made a wide version (at least the background image) of my current skin. Anyway as this involves a huge amount f correction for the knob positions i will not do this before not having done other things that are more important at the moment.
Once i am finished adding most of the labels inside of Knobman shifting knobs should be more simple (and editing fonts/text sizes too).

Anyway in that "wide" version i got some additional empty free space that would have to be filled somehow.

Also possible that for bigger labels BOTH the height and width has to be increased while taht one will the only work on Full HD screens (or even 4K/Retina). I do not want to cramp all those contropls at a minimum space which would make the GUI worse than the old one IMO.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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Just got an e-mail from Mike at AQ.

He added the first new skin to the Poly-Ana "Skin trade" section:
http://www.admiralquality.com/products/ ... #SkinTrade

Seems to be SEM style. Have not checked this yet but will do ASAP.

Herer is a screenshot of the new skin without the mod selection wheels (other screenshot is at the website too):
Image

Obviously this is a wide screen version of a skin. The knobs and switches seem to be similar as those in the old default skin. The enveloeps were shifted to the upper right part.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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Ingonator wrote:Just got an e-mail from Mike at AQ.

He added the first new skin to the Poly-Ana "Skin trade" section:
http://www.admiralquality.com/products/ ... #SkinTrade

Seems to be SEM style. Have not checked this yet but will do ASAP.

Herer is a screenshot of tehnversion without the mod selection wheels (other screenshot is at the website too):
Image
Still lots of wasted space (the base didn't change). And the knobs and switeches remain the same (yet those are a big part of the initial problema, IMO). If SEM was the inspiration, why didn't the designer use the SEM knobs and switeches? Pehaps it would look better that way.

Still, that doesn't seem to lead us anywhere, IMO. It's the same old, confusing and cluttered GUI.
Last edited by fmr on Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
Fernando (FMR)

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Ahhhhh now we're talking :) I'll give this version a run through in the near. Hopefully once I'm done you guys can still rearrange the xml to match the previous screenie re placements..

@FMR - Thank you.

@Ingo - It's all good Ingo, you do you I'll stay outta your way :) (keep learning, I wouldn't put labels on the knobs/elements in knobman, but I'll let you figure out why. Also I didn't mean wider as in force the pixels wider, I just meant less vertical. No use in making it wider as it's not lacking width. And I meant 'eye candy' as in ANY graphics, just saying you're better off learning composition/spacing first vs graphics in short).

EDIT: Wait, is this literally just 'wider', not less vertical??? EDIT 2: Old height was 768, new height is 755, not really much of a difference/laptops and widescreens may still cut it off if they did before (it's only 13pxls, I believe ppl were saying the whole keyboard falls off the screen?).
Last edited by Norbz on Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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fmr wrote:
Ingonator wrote:Just got an e-mail from Mike at AQ.

He added the first new skin to the Poly-Ana "Skin trade" section:
http://www.admiralquality.com/products/ ... #SkinTrade

Seems to be SEM style. Have not checked this yet but will do ASAP.

Herer is a screenshot of tehnversion without the mod selection wheels (other screenshot is at the website too):
Image
Still lots of wasted space (the base didn't change). And the knobs and switches remain the same (yet those are a big part of the initial problema, IMO). If SEM was the inspiration, why didn't the designer use the SEM knobs and switeches? Pehaps it would look better that way.
Just did this one using my own knobs and switches with that new skin:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... it%201.png
Image

Maybe could do one with more SEM style knobs later... :)

Further fine tuning of the knob positions could be necessary too. Just did some fast edit to the positions so far, including the new offset feature in the XML file.


UPDATE:
Just replaced the knobs with "SEM like" ones that i just created myself and also slightly different 2-way/3-way switches. Could have searched for exising SEM style Knobman files but was more fun to try to do this myself.
With the switches i started from my old black one and more and with some "tricks" from exising ones at the library/gallery.

Now going back to my own skin... :)
Last edited by Ingonator on Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:38 pm, edited 12 times in total.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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Ingonator wrote: Maybe could do one with more SEM style knobs later... :)
AND switches. Take the Arturia SEM as an exemple. The rendering is very good, IMO (just the right amount of shadow and 3D elements)
Fernando (FMR)

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One thing everyone seems to be missing is that there is more (a lot more) to a good UI than nicely rendered knobs and good use of space. The most important thing to any UI is layout. Just because there is some room for something doesn't mean it should go there.

When designing a UI the first thing I do is make a "mind map" of it. There's a free program called xmind that works well and is cross platform. Create an element for each function and pay attention to the hierarchy of everything, or in the case of a synth, signal flow. For example, you might start with an element called "OSC" and it would have children called "tune," and another called "shape." Tune would have children called "octave," "semitone," and "fine." Shape would have "waveform," "noise," etc. OSC would then flow into Filter. It seems like a lot of work (it is) but it's a great way to wrap your head around all the functionality and how they relate to each other.

Once that is done, I start to block it out in Photoshop using ultra simple shapes to represent different types of controls. The key is to not use anything close to finished art in this phase so you can just focus on layout. Always keep in mind how a user might use the application.

Then, only when you're happy with the layout, should you start the art phase. ART SHOULD ALWAYS SERVE DESIGN. Art that does not serve design is called "fine art" and should be up on walls, not on computer interfaces. One of the biggest mistakes that Poly-Ana makes is that art hinders the design and readability of the interfaces design. Chickenhead knobs are fun, but they are a lot of visual noise in a busy UI and are just distracting. Long shadows that cover text: inexcusable. Both of these things would be fine on a stomp box emulation where you have a handful of controls in a fairly large space but on a UI like Poly-Ana? Stupid.

Anyway, it's not rocket science, but it is something that requires thought and practice. I can't tell you how much I've learned over the years from watching play testers go though games. When a player hits a screen and pauses for more than a "three Mississippi," you know something it wrong. Of course, some things are impossible to really make purely intuitive. That's where tutorials and such come in handy. But the truth is that Poly-Ana is a very traditional VA. It's full featured, but to anyone who's spent any decent time with analog synths they should not need a tutorial or even time in a manual. I remember going through Poly-Ana when it first came out and thinking, "What the hell is up with the modulation?" When I read the manual, I thought, "Really... it's that simple?" Aways remember, just because you understand how it works, does not mean it's obvious to others.
Zerocrossing Media

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Ingonator wrote: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... it%201.png
Image

UPDATE:
Just replaced the knobs with "SEM like" ones that i just created myself and also slightly different 2-way/3-way switches. Could have searched for exising SEM style Knobman files but was more fun to try to do this myself.
With the switches i started from my old black one and more and with some "tricks" from exising ones at the library/gallery.

Now going back to my own skin... :)
Not bad, but visually, it's not easy to tell what's the position of switches. On the dark skin made by Norbz, there is a very simple add-on that makes it easy - a light. The side that has the light on is where the switch is - easy. On your skin, maybe you could make the down part of the switch lighter - that way, we would know what the switch is "switching".

The wasted space remains, but this is an improvement over the original, in terms of colours (although perhaps the background should be less yellow, more "greyish") and visually.
Fernando (FMR)

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zerocrossing wrote: I remember going through Poly-Ana when it first came out and thinking, "What the hell is up with the modulation?" When I read the manual, I thought, "Really... it's that simple?" Always remember, just because you understand how it works, does not mean it's obvious to others.
That's exactly what happened to me the first time I tried the synth... I thought: What the hell is this? After all modulations sources and destinations are something I am very used to, but the way they are presented in Poly-Ana is confusing... unnecessarily confusing, IMO
Fernando (FMR)

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It would be cool if the oscillator section had the modulation source boxes and amounts near the control they are modulating.

Post

fmr wrote:
Ingonator wrote: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... it%201.png
Image

UPDATE:
Just replaced the knobs with "SEM like" ones that i just created myself and also slightly different 2-way/3-way switches. Could have searched for exising SEM style Knobman files but was more fun to try to do this myself.
With the switches i started from my old black one and more and with some "tricks" from exising ones at the library/gallery.

Now going back to my own skin... :)
Not bad, but visually, it's not easy to tell what's the position of switches. On the dark skin made by Norbz, there is a very simple add-on that makes it easy - a light. The side that has the light on is where the switch is - easy. On your skin, maybe you could make the down part of the switch lighter - that way, we would know what the switch is "switching".

The wasted space remains, but this is an improvement over the original, in terms of colours (although perhaps the background should be less yellow, more "greyish") and visually.
Hi,

i do not think i wil waste much more time on this. This is not based on my own skin, i just replaced the knobs and switches. Anyway you are righ tthat teh switches ould be done better. Actually i first had thhe "background of the switches light grey which makes it easier.

Anyway i will better spend time with my own skin and currently checking another arrangement of the modules, also inside the sections.
That one could have the oscillators, filters and Amps in one line so it will be a widescreen skin then.
Last edited by Ingonator on Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

Post

zerocrossing wrote:One thing everyone seems to be missing is that there is more (a lot more) to a good UI than nicely rendered knobs and good use of space. The most important thing to any UI is layout. Just because there is some room for something doesn't mean it should go there.

When designing a UI the first thing I do is make a "mind map" of it. There's a free program called xmind that works well and is cross platform. Create an element for each function and pay attention to the hierarchy of everything, or in the case of a synth, signal flow. For example, you might start with an element called "OSC" and it would have children called "tune," and another called "shape." Tune would have children called "octave," "semitone," and "fine." Shape would have "waveform," "noise," etc. OSC would then flow into Filter. It seems like a lot of work (it is) but it's a great way to wrap your head around all the functionality and how they relate to each other.

Once that is done, I start to block it out in Photoshop using ultra simple shapes to represent different types of controls. The key is to not use anything close to finished art in this phase so you can just focus on layout. Always keep in mind how a user might use the application.

Then, only when you're happy with the layout, should you start the art phase. ART SHOULD ALWAYS SERVE DESIGN. Art that does not serve design is called "fine art" and should be up on walls, not on computer interfaces. One of the biggest mistakes that Poly-Ana makes is that art hinders the design and readability of the interfaces design. Chickenhead knobs are fun, but they are a lot of visual noise in a busy UI and are just distracting. Long shadows that cover text: inexcusable. Both of these things would be fine on a stomp box emulation where you have a handful of controls in a fairly large space but on a UI like Poly-Ana? Stupid.

Anyway, it's not rocket science, but it is something that requires thought and practice. I can't tell you how much I've learned over the years from watching play testers go though games. When a player hits a screen and pauses for more than a "three Mississippi," you know something it wrong. Of course, some things are impossible to really make purely intuitive. That's where tutorials and such come in handy. But the truth is that Poly-Ana is a very traditional VA. It's full featured, but to anyone who's spent any decent time with analog synths they should not need a tutorial or even time in a manual. I remember going through Poly-Ana when it first came out and thinking, "What the hell is up with the modulation?" When I read the manual, I thought, "Really... it's that simple?" Aways remember, just because you understand how it works, does not mean it's obvious to others.
Damn...talk about the 800lb gorilla in the room!!!! Three words would suffice..."Form follows function". :dog:
"Everything we hear is an opinion,not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective,not the truth." _ Marcus Aurelius

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This thread is horrible.
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