2CAudio B2: Full Body. Maximum Attitude.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2621 posts since 12 Sep, 2008
Den* wrote:Up to 8Khz, and no more.V0RT3X wrote:Really where can i read more about this?den* wrote: In the nature there is noting above 7K in natural reverbs.
http://reverb2014.dereverberation.com/w ... 899165.pdf
Den, this is a paper on DSP enhancements for mobile phones:
"EXTRACTION OF ROBUST FEATURES BY COMBINING NOISE REDUCTION AND FDLP FOR THE RECOGNITION OF NOISY SPEECH SIGNALS IN HANDS-FREE MODE"
I guess extreme fidelity for pro audio in film, TV, games, music etc is NOT their major concern. Their concentration, based on a 10sec skim of the paper, is to improve speech inteligiblity for mobile devices.
You will notice they use a sample rate of 16K. (likely so save battery life in mobile phones -- ie. it is reasonable comprise -- it is not the perfect choice for fidelity.). Thus of course they do not have any energy above 8K!!
You're ears are AWESOME! Your presets are AWESOME! We love your work! If you feel less high freqs are needed in your presets and you design them that way, wonderful! Perfectly great!
...but let's not get into pseudo-technical arguments about why we should or should not use OS. Suffice to say we know what we are doing and we feel there are reasons to use such things in some cases...
I don't want to be rude or make you feel unappreciated. You are DEEPLY appreciated by us, and all our customers. Maybe just say something like "My opinion lately is that... xyz" instead of absolute statements that sound like they are officially coming from the company as sometimes our opinions do not align perfectly... that's OK. It's a free world and they don;t have to align always. Debate is fun -- we learn things this way. Just please be careful not to say things that sound like they are "official 2Caudio policy" or whatever... Merci.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2621 posts since 12 Sep, 2008
Sure, such things may be possible and interesting as "Creative choices". It's a cool idea and maybe useful for SOME cases. Thanks.Den* wrote:Andrew
We need down sampling for the next versions of Aether or else please.
I need it for some closer old hardware simulations.
Thanks....
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2621 posts since 12 Sep, 2008
A little technical info to clarify:
1) Feedback based algo verbs use delay lines.
2) These delay lines are modulated usually for various reasons.
3) Modulating delay lines requires "interpolation"
4) Most forms of "interpolation" create the side effect of High Freq Loss. Interpolation is effectively a filter.
(All-Pass interpolation does NOT theoretically create HF loss, but it creates a TON of noise quite easily. There exist techniques to minimize this, but they are not perfect and some are patented.)
6) IMHO while liberal amounts of "controllable" HF loss is generally advisable to emulate real spaces, "uncontrollable" HF loss is NOT desirable, and emulating real spaces is only a small subset of all the creative things you might like to do with a reverb/spatial-processor... i.e. the Damping Filter curve should be the only thing effecting the time-varying spectrum of the reverb decay... i.e. "what you see, should be what you get"...
7) Most digital filters exhibit freq wrapping and other artifacts at freqs close to Nyquist. This is generally not desirable.
For these reasons and others, we feel oversampling can be beneficial as it helps solve all of these things (and more.) Perfection is simply not possible without Oversampling IMHO. "Good enough" may be possible, but we get more excited about "perfection" than "good enough." That's just us.
1) Feedback based algo verbs use delay lines.
2) These delay lines are modulated usually for various reasons.
3) Modulating delay lines requires "interpolation"
4) Most forms of "interpolation" create the side effect of High Freq Loss. Interpolation is effectively a filter.
(All-Pass interpolation does NOT theoretically create HF loss, but it creates a TON of noise quite easily. There exist techniques to minimize this, but they are not perfect and some are patented.)
6) IMHO while liberal amounts of "controllable" HF loss is generally advisable to emulate real spaces, "uncontrollable" HF loss is NOT desirable, and emulating real spaces is only a small subset of all the creative things you might like to do with a reverb/spatial-processor... i.e. the Damping Filter curve should be the only thing effecting the time-varying spectrum of the reverb decay... i.e. "what you see, should be what you get"...
7) Most digital filters exhibit freq wrapping and other artifacts at freqs close to Nyquist. This is generally not desirable.
For these reasons and others, we feel oversampling can be beneficial as it helps solve all of these things (and more.) Perfection is simply not possible without Oversampling IMHO. "Good enough" may be possible, but we get more excited about "perfection" than "good enough." That's just us.
Last edited by Andrew Souter on Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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- KVRist
- 275 posts since 7 Apr, 2015
In the case that you missed that M7 preset here is the link:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 5#p6176905
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 5#p6176905
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Echoes in the Attic Echoes in the Attic https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=180417
- KVRAF
- 11053 posts since 12 May, 2008
What's all this talk of oversampling... nano quality mode is the best!!! I'm afraid to oversample it!
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Echoes in the Attic Echoes in the Attic https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=180417
- KVRAF
- 11053 posts since 12 May, 2008
Hey by the way, was it a B2 preset responsible for the sound of the piano in the track below? It's sort of set back and dark and I'm curious how much is due to B2 processing. And do you have the preset?
https://soundcloud.com/2caudio/mix-dedr ... audio-b2-1
https://soundcloud.com/2caudio/mix-dedr ... audio-b2-1
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2621 posts since 12 Sep, 2008
I'm actually not sure exactly who made that example so unfortunately I can't comment of the preset(s)/setting(s) used. I think one of our beta testers made this example. It was a while ago now.Echoes in the Attic wrote:Hey by the way, was it a B2 preset responsible for the sound of the piano in the track below? It's sort of set back and dark and I'm curious how much is due to B2 processing. And do you have the preset?
https://soundcloud.com/2caudio/mix-dedr ... audio-b2-1
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2621 posts since 12 Sep, 2008
Well density/diffusion mode (nano, lo, hi, xtrm) settings don't have too much to do with oversampling. They are sort of two orthogonal/independent settings. It's ok to try oversampling with Nano mode.Echoes in the Attic wrote:What's all this talk of oversampling... nano quality mode is the best!!! I'm afraid to oversample it!
Density/diffusion mode will control how quickly the reverb tail reaches maximum density, as well as how flat the spectrum is, as well as how much CPU usage the plug uses.
Nano is cool with large sizes of you want sparse/grainy type of presets. These can be very nice on medium to slow attack synths and can give a very nice retro feel.
Using one of the AP or Air filters in nano mode can give quite interesting results also.
Overs sampling won't undo any of this. It will simply allow more precise control over the frequency decay profile.
-a
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Echoes in the Attic Echoes in the Attic https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=180417
- KVRAF
- 11053 posts since 12 May, 2008
Oh I thought that was one of your tracks.Galbanum wrote:I'm actually not sure exactly who made that example so unfortunately I can't comment of the preset(s)/setting(s) used. I think one of our beta testers made this example. It was a while ago now.Echoes in the Attic wrote:Hey by the way, was it a B2 preset responsible for the sound of the piano in the track below? It's sort of set back and dark and I'm curious how much is due to B2 processing. And do you have the preset?
https://soundcloud.com/2caudio/mix-dedr ... audio-b2-1
thanks for the other info.
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- KVRAF
- 5179 posts since 16 Nov, 2014
I let out a bit my melancholy here....
drenched in some B2 reverbs of course!
https://soundcloud.com/cinebient/remember-me
drenched in some B2 reverbs of course!
https://soundcloud.com/cinebient/remember-me