Breaking rules?

[Limpuls]

Hey, I recently learnt about chords, scales etc. I know for example standard C major chord structure: C E G. I know chords must have at least 3 notes played at the same time. But I'm wondering, do we have to fallow those rules? I mean use standard chords structure 1 3 5? I know about diminshed, inverted, suspended chords, but how about playing chords using 3notes in the right scale but for example play C# D# A? All chord's notes are in the C minor scale but structure is not 1 3 5 and I don't even know is it minor or major (only using my ears when moving 3rd note up or down). I found deadmau5 chords using 4 notes instead of 3 and those chords are really not simple as CEG, C D# G etc. Or for example "viva la vida" song, it starts this using left hand: C# C#, D# D#, G# D#. I mean it only uses 2 notes and structure is very weird. How can I know is it major or minor (G# D#)? So my question is: Can I break rules and use my own chords as long as it fits in the right key and sounds fine?

[FarleyCZ]

Yes.


...thing I've found out actually is that understanding music completely would take insane amounts of serious study. So insane, that using those occasional happy accidents is much quicker. Diatonic scales are just an idea that works, but it doesn't mean it's the only one. It doesn't make it a rule. I recently re-discovered 7th and sustained chords having a loads of fun with them too. So ... if it sounds good, f*** the rules. Rock'n Roll man!

[BertKoor]

I know chords must have at least 3 notes played at the same time.

Sorry, that's wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_chord
The classic theory doesn't really cater for it, but then came Rock'nRoll. Probably it goes back further in time than classical music, but then they did all they could to distinguish real compositions from simple popular (folk) music.

The structure doesn't need to be 1 3 5, can be 3 5 1 (first inversion)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inversion_ ... %29#Chords
And the fifth is often omitted to make room for other notes: added 7th, 9 11 etc.

In the songs you've listed so far not one of the general rules of Western music theory is broken. Theory just describes stuff you can encounter in the wild. If I sing a melody, there could be a whole range of chord progressions that fit with it, and that progression can be played in endless numerous ways. It's just an abstraction.

[ImNotDedYet]

count the steps in between the root/1st and 3rd notes of a non-inverted chord to know if it's a major or minor chord. Major chords have 2 whole steps (c -> c# is a half step, c -> d is a whole step, so c -> 3 is 2 whole steps) between the root and third. (the e in the c major chord is the 3rd because it's the 3rd note in the c major scale, d being the second, etc.) Minor chords have a step and a half between the root and 3rd. (c -> d#/eb is a step and a half) Fifths can often be left out because major/minor chords always have a perfect fifth, so playing the fifth doesn't actually help determine what the chord actually is.

And your example of A, C#, D# could actually be an A Major chord with a flat fifth.

Moral of the story is...play the notes that work for you, even if you play notes outside of the scale on occasion. It can add interest and tension which can then be relieved when brought back into notes that are in the scale.

And while learning everything there is to know about music theory would indeed take a long time, you can learn in small chunks or increments to help increase your musical knowledge. Don't look at the long term ending, but just concentrate on the short term goal of learning more each day. Music theory knowledge gained, no matter how much or in what amount of time can NEVER hurt.

[T-CM11]

Can I break rules and use my own chords as long as it fits in the right key and sounds fine?

You can do anything you want!

[MadBrain]

Music theory is descriptive - it's basically taking existing songs and trying to figure out why they work. So the standard set of chords is simply just names for chords that people use often.

- Chords have 3 notes or more simply because if you have 2 notes, we call it an interval. It's not because less than 3 notes is wrong.

- Chords can easily have 4 or 5 notes (look up 7, maj7 and min7 chords). If you're really creative in your chord voicings, you can get up to 7 notes (ex: Dm13 voiced as D F G A B C E) or even 8 (G7b9 voiced as G D F Ab B C# E Bb).

- C# D# A could be described differently depending on which note is in the bass and what the musical context is. If A is in the bass, a jazz musician would probably say that it's Amaj7#11 or A7#11 with some notes left out (depending on if G# or G fits better in the context). If the bass is C#, it's probably something along the lines of D#m7b5/C# without the F#. If the bass is D#, it depends on the context as it could be any chord with a 7th and a b5 or a #11 and some notes left out (D#m7b5, D#7#11, D#7b9, D#alt7, D#aug7...).

- C# D# G# would be written on a chord sheet as C#sus2. It's not major or minor because it has no 3rd.

- You don't need to take octaves into account when writing chords (so C G E C E is Cmaj). But you do have to take the bass note into account (for instance, C E G A is C6, but A C E G is Amin7).

- There's lots of theory about old music styles (classical, jazz), but not so much theory about newer styles (dubstep etc) because we haven't had time to analyze them.

So yeah in conclusion, music theory is descriptive - it just describes existing music. If your music break the "rules", it doesn't mean it will sound bad, it simply means that your music isn't much like older music.

[planetearth]

Can I break rules and use my own chords as long as it fits in the right key and sounds fine?

You can do anything you want!

Exactly!

Do you think John Lennon worried about what the "rules" were?

Steve

[Art Noir]

Of course you can do anything you want.
But if you know some rules (and how to apply them) it's way easier to achieve what you want by deciding to break the rules or stick to them.

[Zeus117]

Check out Secondary Dominants, Neapolitan chords, Augmented Sixth (ger/ita/fre), Barbershop 7th Diminished. Its all about what comes next, the resolve... or lack of one.

[dutchinlive]

Yeah I wondered what theory was really required to produce decent music, turns out a lot of producers don't have any 'real' training.

[Andreas_L]

The answer is indeed "yes, you can break the rules". It depends on the time and fashions. E.g. If you hear and play J.S. Bach you know that. This music is full of unusual chords and moves.

[MOK19]

Yeah I wondered what theory was really required to produce decent music, turns out a lot of producers don't have any 'real' training.

Nope. Cuz theory isn't a set of rules or directions, unless you decide to use it that way. I think of it as a description of habits and patterns that people strongly gravitate toward. It's a well tread road we intuitively follow, which you could decide to veer from. Throw in some random combination of notes to make a chord, and you can then describe that chord with theory. That same theory can tell you how those chords have typically been used, or the pattern inherent to it's construction. It's not the Code of Hammurabi, but it is sorta like the Rosetta Stone. Do whatever you want, and then communicate, contextualize, or understand what you've just done(or will do) with theory. From that standpoint, there's nothing to violate, except for boundaries you decide on.

[sempondr]

Music theory is descriptive - it's basically taking existing songs and trying to figure out why they work. So the standard set of chords is simply just names for chords that people use often.

This. I regret I didn't know this long time ago when I was young. Music came first, theory came after. There's only one real rule: "Does it sound good to you?".

[tapper mike]

Theorems are devices to explain approaches. Not all approaches will work in all circumstances. You'll almost never hear a m7b5 chord in a blues song (though they do appear in some not all) Nor are you likely to hear a 7b13th chord in classical music or in "most" rock songs though occasionally they happen. The more jazz you play/listen to the more likely you'll be hearing those chord structures.

The same holds true for modal usage and variants in popular music. It's something to write about and read about however not fully realized until you experience it in performance.

[do_androids_dream]

Just make sure you don't use the 19 forbidden notes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE0takm9TX0