KVR Audio

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:34 am

HcDoom wrote:Using Drop all over my new album...its amazing. I can only say thanks to Andy and to his magnificent work. If he would make distortion plug-in (with various types of analog distortion...from subtle to total destruction), I believe that would be a dream come true. I would throw my money at it right away. I believe he is the only competent person to make it properly...out of all developers.

Thanks for you positive feedback! I have read all sorts of great papers on people modelling stomp boxes, tone stacks, and tubes, so I am amazed that there aren't some great plugins already out there covering distortion.

Since The Drop has to do with distortion hopefully it won't be too off topic for everyone: which plugins have you tried and how have you found them?

I have been looking at modelling a bunch of classic stomp boxes like the TS-808/909, Big Muff PI etc, so I visited here: http://www.igniteamps.com/en/audio-plug-ins and downloaded their free TS-999 tube screamer emulation and thought it was pretty good, it was just a fraction duller than the analog pedal I had, but I would have been happy using it in production. There must be better paid products as well, so I thought I should tackle other things instead, like a decent Boss IR-3109 based phaser.

However, in the cabinet simulation department I think they are all equally bad. Linear FIR impulse responses don't really cut it for decent tone. I feel to get that right there needs to be a full model of the coupled load of the power amp and the speaker coil + mass, with non-linearities of both modelled electro-accoustically and spatially. That is something I'm keen to investigate in the future, actually building a 3D model (lattice) of the speaker and cabinet, but I'm not sure computers are quite up for it just yet but they are getting more powerful.

Breeze · Post by **Breeze** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:30 am

andy-cytomic wrote:There must be better paid products as well, so I thought I should tackle other things instead, like a decent Boss IR-3109 based phaser.

One classic effect for which I have yet to hear a really convincing emulation yet, and would be right up your alley considering the quality of the filtering algos you integrated into The Drop, is the the Mu-Tron Bi-Phase. My 2 cents...

nori.lam · Post by **nori.lam** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:53 am

andy-cytomic wrote: PS: I want to do some more videos in the future, shorter more focussed pieces on tackling particular tasks. If you have any suggestions for topics of videos please let me know!

Off the top of my head I was thinking some tutorials on:

Static filtering and drive for production

Envelope followers

FM and external modulation sources

Midi triggered filtering and amp for synths

AM and Panning
Please suggest some more!

Thx Andy! This looks like a pretty complete list from my end. Looking forward to them

xx JPRacer xx · Post by **xx JPRacer xx** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:49 am

Video tutorials would be nice! I haven't purchase the Drop yet because I'm not really sure what uses I could have for a filter. Seeing practical examples would surely help current users and push potential customers to click the "buy" button.

wald · Post by **wald** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:23 pm

Breeze wrote:
andy-cytomic wrote:There must be better paid products as well, so I thought I should tackle other things instead, like a decent Boss IR-3109 based phaser.
One classic effect for which I have yet to hear a really convincing emulation yet, and would be right up your alley considering the quality of the filtering algos you integrated into The Drop, is the the Mu-Tron Bi-Phase. My 2 cents...

+9898 cents

Audiodamage has one, but there's room for improvement...

billcarroll · Post by **billcarroll** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:42 pm

xx JPRacer xx wrote:Video tutorials would be nice! I haven't purchase the Drop yet because I'm not really sure what uses I could have for a filter. Seeing practical examples would surely help current users and push potential customers to click the "buy" button.

You must Google, and you will find ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJi3Za8Sdys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibtSXToNDJ8

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:03 am

billcarroll wrote:
xx JPRacer xx wrote:Video tutorials would be nice! I haven't purchase the Drop yet because I'm not really sure what uses I could have for a filter. Seeing practical examples would surely help current users and push potential customers to click the "buy" button.
You must Google, and you will find ...

Thanks for posting the links again Bill. I'm going to do some better vids that break things down in a more structured way for everyone, and I think JPRacer was just saying "yep that would be cool thanks!"

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:22 am

Dan worrall.

Melvin J. · Post by **Melvin J.** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:56 am

Ha. A Dan Worral tutorial on the Drop would be absolutely enlightening, I'd bet.

Andy, I feel a Cytomic cab emulator would be an amazing thing. Seems like it would be a very useful piece of software.

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:43 pm

andy-cytomic wrote:I have been looking at modelling a bunch of classic stomp boxes like the TS-808/909, Big Muff PI etc, so I visited here: http://www.igniteamps.com/en/audio-plug-ins and downloaded their free TS-999 tube screamer emulation and thought it was pretty good, it was just a fraction duller than the analog pedal I had, but I would have been happy using it in production. There must be better paid products as well, so I thought I should tackle other things instead, like a decent Boss IR-3109 based phaser.

However, in the cabinet simulation department I think they are all equally bad. Linear FIR impulse responses don't really cut it for decent tone. I feel to get that right there needs to be a full model of the coupled load of the power amp and the speaker coil + mass, with non-linearities of both modelled electro-accoustically and spatially. That is something I'm keen to investigate in the future, actually building a 3D model (lattice) of the speaker and cabinet, but I'm not sure computers are quite up for it just yet but they are getting more powerful.

A cabinet sim would be interesting, but I feel like that would entail having to model a few microphones and the recording chain as well. When using amp sims, we're looking for the sound of a mic'd up cabinet after all which means a microphone, the mic position, preamp, etc. In honesty, my biggest beef with amp sims is what I perceive to be a lack of a sustain and "too polite" sounding amps. I find when mic'ing up real amps/cabinets that I apply more drastic EQ than when using amp sims, which I suspect is due to some pre-processing applied in the signal chain when taking impulses of the cabinets. So even if you could eek out enough CPU to get the speaker/cabinet, you'd still have to look at getting the mic and other elements. Probably not enough juice to do all that, but if you can: by all means, please.

When it comes to stomp boxes, I'm not sure that's an area I view as needing much improvement. I've done some A/B's with the Pro-Co Rat in Amplitube versus my own, and minus the Tone knob being reversed, I feel the two are close enough. Same for my Phase 90. I don't own a Tubescreamer, but have played a few, and there's a few plugin versions I also think are pretty darn spot on. Sounds like you got similar results through your own research.

If I had a vote, I'd like to see some more utility type plugins from you. And by that, I mean, plugs I would use more regularly than a stomp box phaser or distortion. I'd love to see what you could bring to an EQ for example. A VA synth would be cool, considering most of that is in The Drop already. Cytomic Drum Machine? I'm in. Most of all, I'd like to see you put out an LA-3A or perhaps another type of track compressor to compliment The Glue.

KingTuck · Post by **KingTuck** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:41 am

Hey Andy. 'Nother fan of The Drop here. Really really nice.

Would you consider adding official support for FL Studio as a host? It seems to function without issue in it, and it has more users than some of the other hosts you officially test and support. Seems worth adding to the itinerary. As I take it the VST implementation of FL (wrapper or no) is one of the more "to spec" of the hosts out there, I've got a bunch of plugins and they seldom have issues with FL. Occasional instance of fixed size buffers and that's about it. For the purpose of security in later updates, I know I'd appreciate it being officially supported. Although it works just fine now, it would be frustrating to be SOL in the unlikely circumstance that something breaks compatibility down the line.

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:02 am

KingTuck wrote:Hey Andy. 'Nother fan of The Drop here. Really really nice.

Would you consider adding official support for FL Studio as a host? It seems to function without issue in it, and it has more users than some of the other hosts you officially test and support. Seems worth adding to the itinerary. As I take it the VST implementation of FL (wrapper or no) is one of the more "to spec" of the hosts out there, I've got a bunch of plugins and they seldom have issues with FL. Occasional instance of fixed size buffers and that's about it. For the purpose of security in later updates, I know I'd appreciate it being officially supported. Although it works just fine now, it would be frustrating to be SOL in the unlikely circumstance that something breaks compatibility down the line.

No probs, can add it. Those lists are a little out of date, and yes FL Studio is pretty good with plugin compatibility and stability and they are also good at giving licenses to developers for testing, which can be a struggle with other hosts (e.g. Adobe Audition, still waiting for a license Adobe!)

kj.metissage · Post by **kj.metissage** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:52 am

Melvin J. wrote:Ha. A Dan Worral tutorial on the Drop would be absolutely enlightening, I'd bet.

Andy, I feel a Cytomic cab emulator would be an amazing thing. Seems like it would be a very useful piece of software.

Agreed, instant buy !

electro · Post by **electro** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:22 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote: When it comes to stomp boxes, I'm not sure that's an area I view as needing much improvement. I've done some A/B's with the Pro-Co Rat in Amplitube versus my own, and minus the Tone knob being reversed, I feel the two are close enough. Same for my Phase 90. I don't own a Tubescreamer, but have played a few, and there's a few plugin versions I also think are pretty darn spot on.

Make sure to demo the Bigrock phaser from Artsacoustic and the new Antresol flanger from d16. The Native Instruments Guitar Rig is good for stomps and Amplitube 3 also has a huge selection of fuzz and distortion stomps.

electro · Post by **electro** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:27 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote: If I had a vote, I'd like to see some more utility type plugins from you. And by that, I mean, plugs I would use more regularly than a stomp box phaser or distortion. I'd love to see what you could bring to an EQ for example.

You mean model a wah pedal, right?

andy-cytomic wrote:However, in the cabinet simulation department I think they are all equally bad. Linear FIR impulse responses don't really cut it for decent tone. I feel to get that right there needs to be a full model of the coupled load of the power amp and the speaker coil + mass, with non-linearities of both modelled electro-accoustically and spatially. That is something I'm keen to investigate in the future, actually building a 3D model (lattice) of the speaker and cabinet, but I'm not sure computers are quite up for it just yet but they are getting more powerful.

Overloud TH-2 did a pretty good job in the virtual cab department.

Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter