Kick synth, what is important?

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

What do you think is the most important part of a kick synth?

Quick to edit and get good results vs. every possibility to make any kick? Classic punchy sound vs. quirky sound? etc...

Milage may vary of course and different styles have different requirements.
David Guda gudaaudio.com

Post

Well, given that many full-featured, general-purpose synths can create excellent kicks, and by virtue of being full-featured synths, provide every possibility to make any kick, the only major win from a kick synth would be workflow. If it has authentic sounding presets for e.g. x0x series drum machine kicks and/or acoustic kicks, it'd probably be useful. Ideally, it'd be lightning quick to dial in a powerful custom kick, too.

Post

I think almost every kick drum preset I've heard from "normal" synths sounds pretty bad.
I honestly feel like 9/10 of the kicks in most sample libraries are usually pretty bad too, usually lacking punch and/or body.
David Guda gudaaudio.com

Post

In that case, if you're looking to monetize your kick drum expertise, how about a "Guda Kicks" soundset for all the major synths? I am pretty sure most of them can do what your plugin does, or something equivalent. So you build better-than-stock kick presets emulating all the popular kick sounds. For those synths that need multiple layers, you could make it a construction kit: body, thump, and noise patches for each type of kick. Although, realistically, there's probably no money in patches for limited synths.

Post

davidguda wrote:I think almost every kick drum preset I've heard from "normal" synths sounds pretty bad.
I honestly feel like 9/10 of the kicks in most sample libraries are usually pretty bad too, usually lacking punch and/or body.
What's lacking in this two kicks I made for your kick synth?

But instead of just telling me what's wrong with them, care to actually tweak them to sound the way you think they should, that's painting better picture and I hope I can learn something too :tu:

They are made on cheap cans, in solo without track reference, but that's not excuse, that's even advantage, many go for wow factor, so they should sound good even on cheap cans without any context :tu:

And to respond to OP, all of that really, but easy to use but not necessarily basic and as instant gratification as it can be achieved :tu:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Post


Post


Post

pitch and volume envelopes ,the phase adjustment between the synth part and the clicky sample(or noise), that all(for me)

Post

take a look at Drumatic 3 and make smaller increments for everything. fin.
"I never did care for music much. It's the high fidelity!" — Flanders & Swann

Post

For solely the creation of a kick drum, I think Sonic Academy did quite a good job. The only thing missing in that Kick plugin is a parallel-mode where you can mix different wave forms and a noise source instead of just one pitch modulated sine wave (the way it is now).

That's why FM synthesis can open up a whole other world of kick drum tones. Modulate that sine wave with an triangle or square wave in another frequency etc.

Post

It might be interesting to experiment with FM some.
FM is quite tricky though, not to implement, that is simple but to make it actually sound good and not just quirky.
David Guda gudaaudio.com

Post

For me, FM kicks do best as just as-basic-as-you-can-get kick sounds, with some high-frequency grit sitting on top. Sorta has a similar vibe to a kick being played through a funky old aliasing sampler.

I'm not fantastic at kicks, though. That's just something I noticed was easy and cool sounding on FM synths.

Post

To balance power, versatility and programming depth VS simplicity and ease of use is always the result of an human decision. They usually dont go that well together.

This said, as I find antiproductive and cumbersome to edit a single instrument for 'just a kick', VS editing a whole dum kit, and play it, and sometimes edit the part, in a very convenient way, I think a single kick instrument would have to seriously *kick ass* (Could not resist) and propose something really new to only consider testing it. ( Added to the fact that all capable synths can produce some interesting kicks, so if its to use an whole synthesizer to get a bass drum, why not use existing, and sometimes very powerfull and capable, synths, that will most of the times have more programming power than a dedicated plug in )

So : Ultra simple, or very sophisticated AND unique seem the only two options as I see it. Then, it's just me.
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there

Post

hey David
i kind of agree with you about samples and most synths
although it depends what you trying to achieve
for me a kick has to 'bounce' out of a PA system
i don't know a better way to explain that...
i haven't tried yours through a PA yet - maybe this weekend
so far the best i have found is Synapse Audio's EKS-Pro
what it offers is very accurate 808 and 909 modelling
- i have measured them against the real things -
plus several other models at a very reasonable price
a kind of one kick fits all...
but i'm not sure it sells well....
i've just spent the final year of my degree doing an 808 kick in Reaktor core
funny - like the 808 - it doesn't sound much until it goes through a big PA with scoops etc
then it bounces nicely
i suspect a lot of samples sound great through monitors
but most my peers have to work hard with layering, EQ and multiband comps to get anything out of them
which i can't be arsed with
i wanted something for live use
i have tried yours on monitors and it sounds real even through the frequency spectrum
if i take off the thump, distortion etc your sine is quite clean
with no phase stuff apart from when you change the time parameter
in fact, when you alter the time parameter is the only time it measures like a 808
i think - i could be wrong - that the phase distortion/comb filtering caused by an 808 envelope being retriggered by the impulse gives the sine its character and 'bounce'
which is missing from all the 808 emulations except EKS-Pro - i measured them too...
and that the clean sine on all the kick synths - kick, big kick etc is not great
and gets lost to flab through 18" drivers
this all may not help you sell units
but most producers i know aren't in the market for a dedicated kick synth
they either use analog modulars or samples, with a 808 sample as bottom layer...

i'll try yours through PA this weekend hopefully...
all the best

dave

Post

Accurate modeling of other stuff has never really interested me too much. Good sound is good sound no matter. Then of course there is a reason that the 909 is still a staple kick for dance music. The 808 never really tickled me as much, then of course it depends on genre. I'm more in to EDM than hip hop and there is it still alive and kickin.....yeah it's friday! :)
I'm going to take a look at eks pro.

Let me know how it sounds through a PA! I don't have any opportunity to do that myself. I work 80% in headphones and 20% on monitors.

The hard work of layering, eq, limiting, multiband comp and still just get good enough result, not really good result is the reason I started kickr project in the first place.
David Guda gudaaudio.com

Post Reply

Return to “Instruments”