SubPac S2

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I din't know it exists ..2 weeks ago.
Accidently saw info about the S1 and found out there is a new version coming. (Musikmesse info)

But there were zero sellers and zero info about S2 on german website. 1st Batch in USA seemed sold out. No European companys selling it..
I Mailed Thomann sales ~2weeks ago : They did put it on their website the next day. They mailed some info and i ordered..
It was supposed to come end May and then it changed to 18.May.

It was packed in 3 cartons..soft (Bubbles) between.
Hardware quality "feels" good. Everything there..already charged.
Testing right now. (after some seconds i knew i like it alot)
It's like beeing there. Live.
U may have experienced: One can barely hear himself as bassplayer because of the mix, but the guitar-string-vibrations and (sub-)speaker-vibrations will still guide you well.<--SubPac brings that back pretty well.
...still testing..1st day use!

I played bass in some bands back then and cannot/don't want to use my 300W head and speaker in my flat. This brings back the original feel. Should be great for tracking/listening/mixing.
Set-up was very easy. (I just used the second phones out from my Babyface)

Minus : I needed a SmallToBig cable-jack adapter to go into the phone2 of Babyface.
Without the adapter i would have not been able to connect to soundcard.

429,- Euro. There is a second shop in Germany with 399,- Euro.. But Thomann was really nice and also i like the delivery-service they use.
- WonderEcho -

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Yes I agree with the cable I need to get myself a longer one. Where did you get yours
Facebook: https://www.facebook...98625/timeline/
Youtube Tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/user/Wazatsc
Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/warren-k-music
Latest Releases: https://pro.beatport.com/artist/warren-k/483631

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I will buy a longer cable from Thomann (was too short)...because i have to give the S2 back..and get a new one:

Bad things:
1. It is so uneven (not good fixed/sewed together), that it hurts my back. -- Besides the main weak point, that it is not very soft at all.
2. The LEDs do not light up alright, because the firmware is not the latest. (emailed SubPac-Team told me that)
(3.) The straps place it either too high or too low on the chair (needs customs..)

Explanation:
1.I noticed after the first day, that the upper side, where the left shoulder hits, stands out and forms a hard edge.
Also the lower right slightly. The edge actually does hurt the shoulder. And it shifts me to the right side, twisting me in the seat...too much.
I hoped after 2 days i wouldn't notice anymore, but no.

1./2.
Loading and battery status is not indicated by the LEDs <- that is a firmware-thing.
(I cannot tell, if it is fully charged or near to getting empty - just 2 light-states of the LED work, not 4)
I e-mailed SubPac team yesterday. (they anserwed in less than 2h!)
They told me that i can send it to Britain and they will try to fix it.(fix the standing out area and to update the firmware - they would pay the shipping)

It seems the first units may not have the lates firmware. <-It only fixes the LEDs issue (there is nothing else updated/fixed!..they told)

--
Unfortunately i was so eager and already had ordered a second unit and want to use Thomann 30DaysBack for the other.
Thomann can ship it to them..i prefer.
Will arrive today or tomorrow...Now i don't know which firmware it has, i am playing with the thought to not open it at all->send back and wait. - But also i would feel a bit bad to order it and not take it...on the other hand i dind't know about the firmware stuff and really don't understand how it could happen, that they did ship it out as is..
After all the effect is still great.. somehow. (I want to use it..or don't own it at all..like all the years before)
When i turn it off, something "important" is mssing.

..updating*




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Amazing. Try: Dire Straits: Iron Hand, Ticket to Heaven..(yea also check the essential older stuff). ("On Every Street" has a perfect production)
Then..Mariah Carey cover "Without You"... :o
Smetana - Ma vlast (My homeland)! yea.
My journey in the last days...Albums/artists i haven't listened to for so long:
Stones "Sticky Fingers" -> Dire Straits -> Pink Floyd-> Queen -> Sade -> "old" Metallica -> Guns 'n Roses -> Death -> Alice In Chains -> Type o Negativ -> Deus -> Faith No More -> "old" Turbonegro -> Radiohead -> Zita Swoon -> Millionaire -> "old"Muse

electro: Solar Fields
Sade - The Bass-player is the best... (Must definitely try Chic..today)
There is alot to discover on every record - The bass/drum interaction together in the productions is very exiting.

..and yea sounds from fat synth (try Hive)..kick ass.
Last edited by Klinke1 on Tue May 26, 2015 10:40 am, edited 4 times in total.
- WonderEcho -

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doppelganger
- WonderEcho -

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Yeah once you go SubPac there is no going back. :D

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I got the second S2 today..and payed for it also.
Opening was very disapointing...the same area stands out + i only connected it carefully to the charger and am 100% sure that it also has the older firmware.
-> phoned Thomann-> it took a bit -> they will unpack one tomorrow and test it...then phone me back.
..updating.


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Would be great, if it had a usb port to just update it.
I do that for RME hardware(soundcard) regularly.
10 year old hardware just got major internal update/changes/new features + drivers.
------------------

I got zero cash now... and a bit stiff left shoulder..

The 3m Cordial small male jack to small male jack arrived.. It's nice ..recommended ..big success. :tu:
- WonderEcho -

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Thomann was very uncooperative. :clap:
The guy phoned me..with a snotty tone in the voice.
He said the SubPac he tested, is alright (no standing out area and the LEDs work alright)
I was sceptic and asked what the LEDs do... it became quicly clear, that he didn't understand/read the manual and had no clue how it should work.
I went through the manual with him.

Then he tried to grab his last straw and told me, that i should make some photos and send it to him. (the uneven area)

...I said: No.
A snotty tone, not wanting to get into/understand the problem..or RTFM...and zero offer.
Told..it's a new produkt, i must understand. I said im willing to make compromises..but paying the full price is too much. Then i have to use the 30DaysMoneyBack...

I bet they will try to get some money because i used one of it some days.

(*places sweet soft pillow on the chair..)
Last edited by Klinke1 on Thu May 28, 2015 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
- WonderEcho -

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I've heard a few people say the S2 is quite uncomfy.

I have a S1 and it's padded and perfectly comfy for me.

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I bet the Thomann guy has pain in his back now. :party:


(The S2 bass-effect is great...imho)

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Edit:
Softness/Structure/Intensity:
It seems.. that it has 2 vibrators (2 main areas: 1 low, 1 high)
The whole vibrating field has a similar layout to the M1, which is wearable (i didn't test the M1)
The foamy "hip/kidney-cushions" on the left and right side are not vibrating..that's why the vibrating layout is similar to M1.
The foamy cushions have not much to do at all...

The 2 main vibrating areas seem to distribute vibration to the whole field over a not very thick (~1cm) pad which forms the whole vibrating field.
The vibrating field is slightly ergonomic and also "soft". (there are maybe 2 layers: 1 (harder) to distribute vibration and 1 above, to make it softer.)
The "distribution-layer" is not very thick..so not much softness here.
The vibrators itself can be compressed a bit and also contribute a bit to softness.
I am 1.8 m, not fat...at first i was sceptic that the length and width wouldn't be enough, but it's alright. (One has to adjust the height a bit carefully - Use custom straps, if it is not fitting 100% with the supplied ones)
<- sounds weird..don't let me guess the rest of their product line...

The frontside is synthetic textile.
The backside is plastic. It has a very stable form but is still sew-/stichable...Stitched to the frontside.

Intensity: I settled to ~45% after a bit. 50% is easily dialed in (clicks-in).
Imho... maybe try setting it to 50% and then place soft material above until the intensity is right..to get more softness. <- but it may get hot or overheat. I didn't notice any (maybe slight) heating during longer use.

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Edit 2:
2 interesting things i have seen in the SubPac FAQ:

A.
The S2 was designed for the seated person – in the studio, in the car, sitting in front of a screen (too much of that in life, really). Its body coverage gives you a more immersive experience whose tactile transducers sit lower on your body,
-->it resonates with your body and chest.

The M1 designed for the mobile user.
-->It sits a little higher up on your body and resonates with your chest and shoulder region.

B.
The Subpac does not alter the phase of the signal. Waveforms projected from the headphones and the Subpac are 100% in phase with each other.

Waveforms projected from monitor speakers and the SubPac will be experienced at a small delay depending on distance. In air, sound takes around 1ms to travel one foot (a very rough approximate that depends on environmental factors), the SubPac will feel earlier by this small amount. In most studios you will have to really concentrate to notice this because we are already programed to compensate for this delay. Remember that sound travels much faster through solid objects. If your speakers are resting on furniture, you will feel them before you hear them. At large distances or in theaters where the speakers are very far away, the delay will become very obvious. This is all easily corrected by inserting a software delay to the SubPac to line the signals up.

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(I didn't feel any latency. The above seems true)

The signal can also be EQed. But then needs and extra ouput-channel. (Most RME soundcards have onboard DSP effects like EQ for every channel with zero CPU strain..great. Thanks to the firmware, which is also possible to update)

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Edit 3:
Latency:
Bluetooth (4.0) connection: 40-150ms depending on the format of the source audio.
Cable: Hand-in-hand with audio .(Zero ms /very close to zero /feels as one)

The crossover from S2 to the headphone/speaker is very smooth. It feels as one.
(One may shift the cross-freq down with an eq. I didn't try it, because it felt alright)

----

Fun:
..The Lowender VST.
DaftPunk "RandomAccessMemories" puts it into massage mode. Secret feature. ;)
A pc-game where you can drive a car or heavy truck. The motor audio let's the seat vibrate accordingly and getting slightly off the road is not just a change of in-game audio-samples..
- WonderEcho -

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I made them an offer since nothing came back: 600 for both and i will send them to England to get them updated and fixed.
:) ..At first they didn't even bother answering to that: They didn't contact the Suppac-team...and told me that.. i don't understand. Had to pull the emergency brake.(money-back)
I asked, if it is some kind of joke. (In germany 15 years ago, it was an absolut taboo to try to change the price of a product in a shop. Until today "older" german salesman often react, as if you offended them.
Next the studio-manager contacted me and said sorry, also there is a problem with warranty, when i send them to england..
Now i got 858,- ..everything. Funny, they now sell a B-stock for 30bucks less...
Bought an Ilok from them, because all went right. Dunno when and how i will meet the subpac again..but it will happen.
It's a good product, the Subpac-team was really nice.(Beside the flaws in the first batch..)
- WonderEcho -

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