Soft Synths Whose Presets Don't Do Them Justice

[mcnoone]

It's quite obvious that the quality of sounds is preference related, and opinions will vary.
Lots of people create different kinds of music which may or may not require different types of sounds.
So you end up with people loving sounds, that another hates.
I think it comes down to time used in creating a sound.
How many features of the synth, and capabilities were used in the patches creation.
I can see a trend within the preset maker market of music producers, who can create good music but produce nothing but heard it all before patches that look like they are three minutes from an initialize patch, buried deep under a large array of effects.
Then they make good packaging and a video with great music tracks to go with it.
Every other preset is a trance pluck or stab, and it gets pretty repetitive real fast.
They most likely don't play the keyboard to be able to test the patches playability in that context, as they are mostly just daw jockey's (which isn't a bad thing) and so you end up with poor velocity setting, and no nuanced feel to the sounds when actually playing them.
I can see a lack of use within any synths modulation matrix, and other time cutting non-attention to detail, as a dead give away of poor design skills. Not to mention sounds where you turn the effects off and you're left with a pinging ringing plucking noise of tin.
Music producers don't make great sounds, they just make average sounds, that sound like something heard a million times. That's because they are too busy creating music, and left with less time to explore the sound creation side of things.

[lobanov]

So to summarize...........Anyone who says "Oooooh I never use patches created by someone else" is simply missing the opportunity to gain musical inspiration. That's just silly to let ego deprive you of such a resource. This nonsense that we have to do everything alone now or it's cheating is ridiculous. Hasn't anyone ever been in a band and shared musical ideas ? No different......

I've sold patches and I've bought patches because I know that other people have other ideas. Ideas that I can use for musical inspiration. I'll use another person's patch in a heartbeat if I find it musically inspiring even if I've created hundreds of patches for that same synth..........

Oh, yes! Sometimes the preset and the melody (or any other part of arrangment) are two sides of one coin...

[wagtunes]

but if I create my own patches, why would I spend money to buy what I could create on my own?

Because you're not the best sound designer on the planet. Others can and will create better patches than you can or will........

As far as what sounds I've created that have been in movies, what does that have to do with anything?

It has to do with you talking smack about Zebra's factory patches many of which were created by Howard Scarr. You've disrespected someone who obviously has more talent than you do.

No, I'm not the best sound designer on the planet. So what? The sounds I make are good enough for my purpose and therefore I don't need to purchase sounds made by others, especially as I am on a limited budget. Plus, ultimately, it comes down to the music. No patch can save a horrible song.

As for talking smack about Howard Scarr, I've done no such thing. I simply said I don't like Zebra's presets. That's my personal preference and I'm entitled to it just as people are entitled to not like the sounds that I design. I don't like the music that Kanye makes. That doesn't mean I'm talking smack about Kanye. I just don't like his music. I'm sure Howard Scarr is a great guy. I just don't like Zebra's presets, just like some people don't like a lot of things that are popular or even considered "good."

Ultimately, if you're trying to get a rise out of me, you're not. You don't like me? You think I'm a snob? That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion.

As I said, it matters as much to me as what Obama had for lunch today.

[lobanov]

I wouldn't really call it progress. It's certainly getting easier and easier to knock together a track that sounds like a million others but that in itself is not progress. Unless that IS what you personally call progress.

Do all the piano pieces from Beethoven "sound like a million others"? And no progress?

[arkmabat]

OBXD. I don't think it comes with any...

[zerocrossing]

Funny, a lot of the mentions have been from synths that I thought had great presets. Great, but unusable. I get it though. Most people surf through the presets when doing a demo, so they make them extra complex and full sounding. Then lay on effects.

But often those patches are like a lump of ore just waiting for you to smelt the gold out of.

[murnau]

Well, you have to tweak a preset to your own needs of course.. ..it's by defintion not usable for production right from the start otherwise it would not be a preset.

PS. @Teksonik: Keep in mind DFTT!

[do_androids_dream]

I wouldn't really call it progress. It's certainly getting easier and easier to knock together a track that sounds like a million others but that in itself is not progress. Unless that IS what you personally call progress.

Do all the piano pieces from Beethoven "sound like a million others"? And no progress?

Well, there's always going to be a strawman somewhere in the house... lol. I think what I'm trying to say is that people could stand to benefit greatly from investing time in learning how their instruments work. From hanging around here for the last couple of years I see new synths come and go, popular preset packs come and go and I see the same folks getting super excited then a few months later popping up in threads where they say they lack inspiration or complaining that there's not enough presets. There will never be enough presets if you lack ideas in the first place.

[do_androids_dream]

Funny, a lot of the mentions have been from synths that I thought had great presets. Great, but unusable. I get it though. Most people surf through the presets when doing a demo, so they make them extra complex and full sounding. Then lay on effects.

But often those patches are like a lump of ore just waiting for you to smelt the gold out of.

And by the time you've smelted the gold it sounds pretty lacklustre in isolation - if it were a preset folks would be saying how 'crap' it was lol

[Kriminal]

but if I create my own patches, why would I spend money to buy what I could create on my own?

Because you're not the best sound designer on the planet. Others can and will create better patches than you can or will........

As far as what sounds I've created that have been in movies, what does that have to do with anything?

It has to do with you talking smack about Zebra's factory patches many of which were created by Howard Scarr. You've disrespected someone who obviously has more talent than you do.

Perhaps he just doesnt like the presets, its not personal.

Not everyone has the same taste.

[Touch The Universe]

Sooner or later you guys might realize that NOBODY CARES about the work you put into something anymore. They don't know what they are listening to anyway and don't care. It's all background noise now. It's instant gratification now. They want something to make them feel good. People have for the most part completely lost listening skills at this point. They have been force fed pop festival preset ableton templet music since the turn of the millennium. Make your music for yourself, but if you want to put a few pennies in your pocket just GIVE UP and swallow your pride because NO ONE CARES about music any more. You ask them what talent is and they think you are talking about turning a delay feedback knob or a compression ratio knob at this point.

Are you people quoting from a textbook or something that someone told you and you take as fact. Seriously, I think I've read the same thing over and over hear here and I don't know if its the same person or maybe people who've read the same book It's just elevator music now

[Touch The Universe]

Sooner or later you guys might realize that NOBODY CARES about the work you put into something anymore. They don't know what they are listening to anyway and don't care. It's all background noise now. It's instant gratification now. They want something to make them feel good. People have for the most part completely lost listening skills at this point. They have been force fed pop festival preset ableton templet music since the turn of the millennium. Make your music for yourself, but if you want to put a few pennies in your pocket just GIVE UP and swallow your pride because NO ONE CARES about music any more. You ask them what talent is and they think you are talking about turning a delay feedback knob or a compression ratio knob at this point.

Are you people quoting from a textbook or something that someone told you and you take as fact. Seriously, I think I've read the same thing over and over hear here and I don't know if its the same person or maybe people who've read the same book It's just elevator music now a (to grandma's maybe)

[idfpower]

Are you people quoting from a textbook or something that someone told you and you take as fact. Seriously, I think I've read the same thing over and over hear here and I don't know if its the same person or maybe people who've read the same book It's just elevator music now a (to grandma's maybe)

Well that's because it's actually true: most ppl don't hear anyting beyond that "background noise" level. But THAT IS OK. Not everything has to be art (like). There will always be a demand for easy going no frill dance music otherwise all that music wouldn't be around - often ppl just need something to jam on to, or some background ambiance for chatting and socializing - it's doesn't need to be complicated, in fact it should be as straight forward as possible since pppl are not actually listening to it or really paying attention, it's just something that keeps the party going.

On the other hand, even when ppl do pay attention to the music they don't know nor care how that music was created. They don't care about production and all that. But they can tell you right away if they like what they're hearing or not. And that's pretty much what it comes down to: you're either a bedroom artist creating music using your own recipe & methods who doesn't care what everyone else thinks about his work, or someone catering to the masses and in that case, you're delivering whatever the current trends demand. Doing your own thing and getting rich at the same time is very rare - almost impossible today. Being artsy and setting trends at the same time... not gonna happen. The music industry is what it is: you're either conforming and risking putting out soulless crap, or remaining true to your core beliefs and artistic integrity, but risking to die anonymous. Staying true to yourself while mocking the industry.... cute... but who cares, really They're in for the money not for the praises. It just happens that music is their merchandise - that's all. Futile effort, IMO, of course

Well, there's always going to be a strawman somewhere in the house... lol. I think what I'm trying to say is that people could stand to benefit greatly from investing time in learning how their instruments work. From hanging around here for the last couple of years I see new synths come and go, popular preset packs come and go and I see the same folks getting super excited then a few months later popping up in threads where they say they lack inspiration or complaining that there's not enough presets. There will never be enough presets if you lack ideas in the first place.

I don't know about you, but I can't consider a VST instrument a proper full instrument. Maybe I miss all that comes with a hardware synth (from tactility to how the actual components interract with each other and their physical limitations, etc), or maybe I just know there's no use to invest my time into learning how a particular VST works since the next release is just around the corner. That's the thing with software instruments: it's so easy to go beyond what hardware can do in such a small amount of time; so many releases and honestly, often off putting when I see (some) devs not getting very involved in their own creations - I mean if they can't be bothered to fix critical bugs or putting together a hefty nice usable preset bank, why should I give a damn about their product?

On a different note, someone has mentioned that and he (she) is right: some instruments come loaded with apparently awesome presets - WHEN TESTED SOLO - but as soon as you try to use it in a song context with multiple layers, everything goes downhill - it either can't cut in the mix, doesn't seem to gel right with everything else, sounds out of tune, the sequences make no sense, the sounds can't be sync-ed to song tempo, key, range, etc. So yeah, testing them in such a context might actually change your opinion about certain synths - some actually sound meh by themselves, but can really help to spice up a song. And it actually also goes to hardware: I've bought multiple basses that sounded (apparently) great solo but were just a mudfest in a band situation no matter the rig or settings, while others started to sound very, very good Go figure

[Apostate]

I don't know about you, but I can't consider a VST instrument a proper full instrument. Maybe I miss all that comes with a hardware synth (from tactility to how the actual components interract with each other and their physical limitations, etc), or maybe I just know there's no use to invest my time into learning how a particular VST works since the next release is just around the corner. That's the thing with software instruments: it's so easy to go beyond what hardware can do in such a small amount of time; so many releases and honestly, often off putting when I see (some) devs not getting very involved in their own creations - I mean if they can't be bothered to fix critical bugs or putting together a hefty nice usable preset bank, why should I give a damn about their product?

I admire how well written and obviously intelligent your posts are, thus I'm mystified by your views on vsts. Of course they're "full instruments"...I'm curious as to what exactly your definition of a full instrument is. Is it something that one manipulates to use in a musical way?

I spend hours and hours mastering various synths, so I'll have that facility in the future. I've learned a ton of (what for me at least are) extremely valuable lessons. One of the most wondrous and affirming things for me is knowing there will be new advances in programming in the future, "keeping up" for me is part of the joy. And I might be older than you.

All respect, I think you write very well, and am usually quite interested in your opinions.

[idfpower]

I'm mystified by your views on vsts. Of course they're "full instruments"...I'm curious as to what exactly your definition of a full instrument is. Is it something that one manipulates to use in a musical way?

Heh, if the thing can put out sounds that you can incorporate into a song, then it's a musical instrument, of course (no matter the actual form or purpose). Agreed

What I meant to say was something down this line: software instruments are so cheap (or free) and releases are so frequent that I just can't see myself investing more time into learning to use a software synth to its full extent - unless it's something really, really cool out of the box. I just test it briefly to see if there's already something in it that I can use, and move on. Maybe it's a case of minimal investment, minimal involvement, I don't know. When it comes to hardware, I usually spend many hours going through all the available info, videos, and so on, I try to test the thing in person and then shelling out the cash. And in that case I will put the instrument to its paces and will try to discover how I can use it to improve my skills. But with software... it's just so easy to grab something, giving it a spin and jumping to the next thing that gets released. I'm constantly shuffling through my vst synths and very few of them stand the test of time. That's why I tend not to go deep into VSTs.